Richard Wilson 0:00
But very specifically to real estate, families who can understand the strategy and trust the team is most important and they’re much more likely to do the deal. They’re local to the team or local to the asset. Of course they can get to know and build the trust in them faster.
Welcome to CREPN Radio for influential commercial real estate professionals who work with investors, buyers and sellers of commercial real estate coast to coast. Whether you’re an investor, broker, lender, property manager, attorney or accountant We are here to learn from the experts.
J Darrin Gross 0:33
Welcome to Commercial Real Estate Pro Networks CREPN Radio, Episode Number 260. Thanks for joining us. My name is J. Darrin Gross. This is the podcast focused on commercial real estate investment and risk management strategies. Weekly we have conversations with commercial real estate investors and professionals who provide their experience and insight to help you grow your Real estate portfolio. Let’s get into the show.
Today my guest is Richard C. Wilson. Richard is a third generation Eagle Scout. He’s also the founder of the Family Office Club, which has over 2000 registered investors. And his team offers a digital investor platform and sources direct investment opportunities for his 58 investor clients. And in just a minute, we’re going to speak with Richard about what the ultra wealthy are seeking most often. But first, a quick reminder, if you like our show, CREPN Radio, there are a couple things you can do to help us out. One you can like, share or subscribe. And as always, you can leave a comment we’d love to hear from our listeners. Also, if you’d like to see how handsome our guests are, be sure to check out our YouTube channel and that’s Commercial Real Estate Pro Network. With that I want to welcome my Guest Richard, welcome back to CREPN Radio.
Richard Wilson 2:04
Thank you Darrin.
J Darrin Gross 2:06
Well, I’m looking forward to our talk today. And before we get going if you could share just a little bit about your background with listeners.
Richard Wilson 2:16
Sure. So for the last 13 years, I’ve started and grown the family office club, we have 16 full time professionals on our team, we’re usually when there’s not a virus crisis, locking down the world, hosting 30 live events a year. Now instead, we interview at least one investor per day and upload their mandate to our portal and do virtual discussion panels each week and webinars etc. You know, we got about 2000 registered investors as part of our investor club and so we’re not a conference company. We do host a lot of events, but we don’t just do conferences we don’t do consulting. We’re really a helpful resource to anyone starting a family office running one or anyone is looking to raise capital from ultra wealthy investors or core private investors.
J Darrin Gross 3:01
And just for clarification, can you define what is a family office?
Richard Wilson 3:07
Sure, it’s just an ultra wealthy investment solution. So if you’re worth $50,000, and you make a mistake, you know, it’s not going to cost you that much, probably. Hopefully, if you’re worth 500,000 or 5 million or 50 million, you can just imagine that not only is each mistake that much more expensive when you’re worth $5 million, you’re also much more likely to make those mistakes because you have maybe multiple businesses. On top of being on a board. More people are asking for your money and your time you have more employees. So one little selling an asset early or late. It gives you an extra five or 10% tax, you know, hit might have cost you so much might cost you $50,000 at one mistake, you could have hired a full time person just to help you play defense. So family office is just playing better defense, managing chaos for you doing things more holistically, so you can be more proactive on tax planning on writing your operating Businesses on investing in a smart way.
J Darrin Gross 4:03
Got it? Now, you said you’ve been working with family offices for the last 13 years?
Richard Wilson 4:09
J Darrin Gross 4:10
Okay. How long have they been a recognized formation for business?
Richard Wilson 4:17
You know, really the term started being used more in the 70s and 80s on a small scale, but still in the 90s. nobody really knew what the term meant even in finance. And when I started in 2007, most people I talked to even in the investment industry had not heard of them before. And if you had now if you fast forward 13 years, just about everybody in finance and investments has heard about a family offices, but still most of the ultra wealthy globally, I’ve never heard the word family office. They have no idea what it means once they learn about it, they want to have a virtual family office or a single family office for themselves. And they want the benefits of one once they hear about it. So we’re really at like the third or fourth inning of this industry really growing and becoming In industry in itself
J Darrin Gross 5:02
So the the the concept is basically Is it is it not creating some sort of like a corporate structure to your you’re managing your wealth is that kind of a
Richard Wilson 5:14
Yeah, that could be one way of thinking about it, I think that no simple way, it’s just a 360 degree management of your balance sheet. Anything that touches your balance sheet should be coordinated at the center. Because what happens if you don’t have a family office, if there’s an investor listening to this and you’re worth 3, 10, $20 million, or much more, you have to remember what your insurance agent said. Remember what your CPA told you remember, you heard on some webinar about tax planning, you know, talk to your wealth advisor, you know, talk to your spouse and next generation, charitable giving, you might just do by yourself and not coordinated and you might do a direct investment into an angel investment or a real estate property. Well, if you knew what percentage of that investment should come from what trust or you had good estate planning in place or you have pride of tax planning, you should have that all central Because the busier you get, the less likely it is you’re going to remember what your CPA told you to do eight months later, when you meet with your insurance agent, or you invest in that deal. You’re just going to make mistakes, the busier you get, it just gets too complex to keep all in your head.
J Darrin Gross 6:14
Got it. So it allows you to just kind of stay on the course or your get a plan and, and actually work the plan as opposed to a bunch of fragmented ideas that don’t have some sort of central coordination there.
Richard Wilson 6:29
J Darrin Gross 6:30
Seems like a lot of businesses could probably use that.
Richard Wilson 6:34
J Darrin Gross 6:34
You know, but and then as far as your, your business model, you mentioned the the events and stuff 30 events normally over the year. What are you you mentioned I guess you’re doing daily daily interviews with with
Richard Wilson 6:49
Yes, so the normal events are workshops on Investor Relations and raising capital. Or investor summits, which feature 30 live investors on stage answering questions, discussion panels and giving talks on stage. And the combination gives those who are raising capital A chance to get 35 different capital reasons, strategies in a single day at the workshops, but then go to an investor summit and hear from 30 investors in a day and hear all their opinions, their preferred structures, their preferred feed preferences, strategies, etc. And so a lot of people who come into raising capital, meet with investors when I only meet with 30 investors a month or 50 a month and by hearing from 30 in a day, they can kind of grow their, their capacity to work with investors and be more effective working with them. So that’s what the family office club is all about. And during this virus crisis, we just are pointing people to the 450 investors we’ve recorded on video and we have inside the member portal, and then every day we do a zoom interview for seven minutes with an investor and go into exactly what they’re doing. In an overall, what they’re invested in more than anything else right now, what strategies they want to share with other investors or people raising capital, they’re listening. And we upload that to the portal every day. And we share a lot of that, you know, on our YouTube channel and on the family office podcast from time to time as well. But we do you know, that constant refreshing of investor content to the portal is really the main the main family office club offering.
J Darrin Gross 8:24
Got it? And just to be clear, the people you’re interviewing, are they the ones raising the capital? Are they the ones, the members of the family offices that are looking for opportunities,
Richard Wilson 8:34
So we have both types of members. So if you’re an investor who strictly allocates and you’re an LP investor or family officers looking for deals to invest in, then membership in the family office club does not cost anything. If you sometimes syndicate deals or you’re looking for other families to co invest in your deals, you’re raising capital for a real estate deal or real estate development company. Even if you are ultra wealthy as well. If you’re also raising capital, you need to pay for a membership And the membership options are at family offices calm if anyone wants to check that out, but we have 800 and some paying subscribers on a monthly basis. And then we’ve got 2000 registered family offices and investors on the other side.
J Darrin Gross 9:17
So you are kind of the conduit between the two groups, the people with capital and those that are looking to raise capital.
Richard Wilson 9:28
Right. Right, right. And we’re more powerful to each side because of doing both. So some people say, well, Which side are you helping, and importantly, we don’t take any fees from people raising capital, there’s no success fees we take from them. We are just helping the investors get access to the best quality investments and the investors pay us a performance fee when they invest in something that I helped them find through our community. On the other side, that people raising capital. We help them through we have family office databases, familyofficedatabases.com with a free book on capital raising. At capitalraising.com, we have our workshops, we review the pitch text and all the marking materials of our members once every three months. So the 800 number is usually 25 to 40 months submit their materials and we give them 20 bullet points of feedback on what they could change in the materials to be more effective working with investors. So we really try to make our program holistic, and that if someone joins and they consume that content for 18 months, they’re part of the community, we’re going to really transform. You know how they work with investors, because we’re texting and emailing and calling our investors every day. And we represent 81 investors under contract that are more close managed investors out of those 2000, there’s 81 that we’re working with every day to help access deals and get access to you know, opportunities in our club.
J Darrin Gross 10:48
Got it, got it. So let me ask you, so in 2007, and I’m trying to remember exactly when everything blew up, but it seemed Like 2008 2009 was really kind of more of the recognized, implosion. Can you see any kind of similarities in what was going on when you started to these recent times and just characterize as to how the ultra wealthy viewed the situation or perhaps some of your conversations with what they’re, what are they saying right now?
Richard Wilson 11:33
Sure. Well, is it good time to invest when things are going bad? So you know, many of them are taking positions in the stock market and putting, you know, the time we’re recording this on the first of April, they might be putting, I don’t know, it depends on the family. It’s not a recommendation to anyone listening, but some of them some of them putting 10, 15, 20% in the market. And then throughout April and May they plan to be building up their position. Maybe we have 50 to 60% you know, allocated over the next month or two expecting that by Q1 next year, there’ll be a nice recovery for them, you really don’t know what’s going to happen. But also, we sent an email out last Friday looking for three types of investments for our investors right now. One is that they’re looking for subscriptions at $20 a month and lower that we’re not hurt by the virus, or maybe they’ve grown slightly. So that’s something they’re looking for, if it’s a steady investment, and reoccurring revenue is always of interest. They’re looking for companies that are doing better than ever right now, because their services in need. And then they’re also you know, willing to be a lifeline to someone who’s going to lose their business and maybe the CARES Act and any other stimulus isn’t enough to save their team or save an asset. And they need a lifeline to kind of stay in business or stay afloat. Then there’s some investors who want to get access to those types of investments as well. So those are three areas that are of interest, but very specifically to real estate, families who can understand the strategy and trust the team is most important and they’re much more likely to do the deal. They’re local to them. To our locals the asset, of course, they get to know how to build the trust in them faster
J Darrin Gross 13:06
Got it. And in real estate investments, do they? Are they usually looking to take an equity position? Or is it Are they also perhaps open to lending? Or where is it?
Richard Wilson 13:21
Yeah, they’re open to both I think a lot of people like income they like to income a lot near the end of the cycle and I think they still like it but they’re more questionable about quality of collateral right now and they get an income you know, opportunity and they’re a little bit hesitant right now until we see the worst of what comes out here in April I think, but it’s still a great time to be planting seeds getting to know someone show that you still have a strong team so have your head above water in this type of situation. And getting building relationships right now without the travel that most of us you know typically do each week. There’s more time to be doing videos, zoom calls like this and you know, seeing how you could add value and connect people and and also update your messaging and positioning so that you’re truly unique in the industry, and that you’ll attract more investors. Just like you creating this podcast, you know, creating content. That’s kind of, you know, part of your question was about similarities between 2007 and eight to now, because that’s when we started our business was 2007. And when I started, we it was all built off of thought leadership, sharing best practices, and that’s how we attracted business. We didn’t have a budget to do advertising. So we’re going back to that now. You know, we’re publishing things every day, multiple times a day, where before we were maybe doing one or two new pieces of content per week, and calling it good on our doing, you know, two to five, sometimes seven pieces of new content in a day for our member portal for our public website for social media, etc.
J Darrin Gross 14:46
Got it. And when you say, publishing content, is there any strategy that you’re employing as far as is it basically, just information is it is it direction is it? Is there any kind of an overarching strategy with that?
Richard Wilson 15:08
Yeah, I think the most important strategy is something I got from Gary Vaynerchuk. Just on, don’t worry on the quality being perfect. I’ve got like $40 vistaprint thing on the wall behind me. I’ve got you now I’ve got $180 microphone that looks exactly like yours in black. And I’ve got this $40 ring light that makes us I don’t have this weird dark shadow on the side of my face or my window over here I learned and there’s a little clip on life or $15 I don’t not use it today. But you know, for $250 you can get the setup. But for years, I didn’t have any of that. It was just my laptop with a white background behind me. Just my iPhone and I’m walking down the street recording something and I think that thing I got from Gary was that he just documents his journey so authentically, you can see hey, I’m just at this asset. We’re walking away from this deals. Because it’s not good. Or when I was doing due diligence on a property recently I walked through to record the video of what have been done on the properties, my investors could see that yes, I was there and pointing to the things that they had done. And it’s not about the production being perfect. It’s just about documenting your authentic journey. And also, Gary often says, you know, who cares that I’m in the back of an Uber, like, who cares that you can hear a car outside, if you’re so worried about the production value, then maybe your content sucks, because the whole point is that your target audience will see the genuine, authentic content and you’re hitting them between the eyes of value that’s just for them, and no one else in the world is doing that. And so if you’re worried about the environment as your chief concern, you’re missing the whole point. The whole point is just focus on adding that value. And your members would rather hear value and not hear from you because there was a car noise in the background. You know, and so that really resonated with me as well.
J Darrin Gross 16:50
Yeah, no, I always enjoyed your I can’t remember how it’s been a couple years, but I remember you’d be like in some foreign land and be All sudden down the street and walk along with your iPhone there. And I’ve been like, Wow, cool. I mean, but it was exactly that it’s just kind of like an update kind of a, here’s what I’m doing, here’s what I’m talking about, here’s some of the questions. Right and kind of short, but it was it was topical. And there is there is value in that this is probably something that other people are thinking about. Or I mean, if you’re seeing this in an event, it’s likely that other people are having the same kind of questions and be able to relay that kind of real time as opposed to some sort of a big thought out production and, and, and all that.
Richard Wilson 17:33
Right. Yeah, and I couldn’t agree more. I think that um, the thing is, it’s more interesting when you’re on location somewhere it’s more tangible. You can show someone your oil and gas rig you can show them walking through a before self storage unit and after renovated self storage unit or walk the ground where you’re going to be developing your piece of real estate, show them the lines on the property and the surrounding traffic that’s going by, and I think that that makes it more real and I stole the strategy from a German banker I used to watch his videos on YouTube. And he’d be on the balcony of a hotel in Berlin, they’d be on the balcony of a hotel in Paris, they just watch this guy’s video saying like, Man, that guy, you know, must be a pretty successful guy who’s speaking all over the world in these different places. And I realized that not only makes the video more interesting, but it’s like a positioning strategy of authority or you know, they must know some things and be very well connected is kind of like an underlying message of it. And so I think that when I started recording videos, I just realized that even if I’m somewhat monotone in a video if there’s something really cool behind me plus as some authority positioning it takes the pressure off of me to be like Tony Robbins, Mr. Excited voice person, you know, cuz I that’s not really me.
J Darrin Gross 17:33
Right, right. Right, right. No, that’s, that’s it’s good kind of a storytelling, quality there. I used to watch there was a way still around Casey Neistat on YouTube and the guy was just constantly skateboarding through New York City and holding this camera in front of them there. And just like seemed like a, you know, a crash waiting to happen kind of thing. But it was just there was just this, you know, something was more interesting. Right? So, you mentioned you’re talking about about content and strategy. Do you have like a core message that you’re trying to get to? Or is it more about just trying to speak to what you think your your identified audience is interested in? and expecting to hear from you? Or does that make sense? I mean,
Richard Wilson 18:41
Right? Yeah, no, it makes total sense. So it’s also tricky In my case, because I am trying to be helpful to those raising capital as well as investors. But what I realized is that if I’m helpful to the investors, the more investors that have come into me, then the more that people raising capital are always going to come to me. So I always have to be serving the investors first. That’s why I take the success fees from the investors and not people raising capital to keep that alignment in place. And I’m always trying to think about what are the headaches of my investors? What are the complaints, so They call me, you know, they say something like, I feel like I’m driving through fog. I don’t know what to do strategy wise, I’m not sure who to trust. Or I’ll talk about some frustrations that a lot of my clients have, or how a lot of them have lost money, I could easily be avoided if I could just share that story. And also talk about just frustrations in the industry and inefficiencies. I see if all of my family offices are doing something and it makes no sense at all. That’s interesting. And if 100 family offices will help set up if none of them have their core values and their mission and their wealth story documented, you know, that’s kind of backwards. It doesn’t cost anything to do those things. So I like pointing out like golden threads of like, what nobody should be doing. And everyone learns not to do those things over time, or what everyone does after the patent family office for seven years, or whatever really painful, expensive mistakes are what are some go to models. So I have these ideas in my head and I write them down as a video idea within my project management software. So that when I go and I travel and get on an airplane, my goal every For three videos, every time I go to a city, I’m usually traveling every week when there’s not a virus. And, you know, so that way if I knock out three videos when I travel back in before the virus that was enough content to keep things, keep things updated. So the other I’m sure we could do like a whole hour podcast on it that just that question you asked me, so I’ll stop talking now. But it’s a really good question that nobody’s nobody ever asked me.
J Darrin Gross 21:22
Well, and I think it actually, it goes to the point and I’ve heard others speak to this, especially in these times when there’s uncertainty. And there are probably some, some people that are I don’t think some people think most people are looking for ways to cut costs because of the uncertainty. And right, one of one of the things I think people would would probably lean to cut is those things that can’t measure the benefit of. Marketing is always one of those challenging things is, if you unless you put out a coupon or something in somebody’s direct response comes right in says I’m, you know, I want to buy because of this or I want to invest with you or whatever that is because they have that one piece and you can do the one to one correlation. Now, as is more of a time to not abandon any kind of marketing message, it’s more a matter of time to stay in front of whoever you’re trying to work with, whether it be investors or, or capital raisers, for whatever that that message is. So I appreciate you just kind of sharing a little bit about what you’re, what you’re doing and, and how you’re thinking and how you kind of go back to the basics, like you were back in the beginning. Is is ramping up the messaging not not, you know, hiding or not, you know, not getting in front of people right now. So,
Richard Wilson 22:45
Yeah, we’re just tripling down on that. And, you know, it’s what our company was built on, and it’s what has been attracting people to us. I just was always so busy traveling. Yeah, one day, I’ll get to the point where we could update social media every business day, at least one time and sometimes students Or one day, we’ll interview one investor per day. And then with a virus head, we said, Wow, what are we going to do? We converted our platform into a digital platform with added, you know, 40 new members in the last, you know, three weeks since the virus hit with that new digital offering and just realize that we really have no other choice, but just add more value. And then, you know, even if everyone else keeps on doing their plan, we’ll be providing two or three times the value to potential and current members than we were before through that content.
J Darrin Gross 23:31
Do you find the family offices are more receptive to messages? Are they getting more presented to them now?
Richard Wilson 23:42
I think that they’re more receptive to things which they’ve gotten to know the founder and the principles very well and it, it’s, um, it has to fit one of those categories of, they have a real deep relationship and now makes it so if something is repriced, they’re gonna Be very smart by reinvesting right now. Otherwise, it has to be something that’s doing even better than ever because of the virus or has not been effective because it’s a small subscription or at some reoccurring critical surface, you know, something like phone lines that people are going to drop their phone lines for a month or two, just to cut costs type thing. So it depends. I think that things which are now steady and haven’t gotten hurt out, of course, are of more interest. Real estate deals, lenders, in some cases have pulled lending in the last minute and didn’t come to the closing table. Some people have renegotiated a lot of investors have balked to it committed to ambassador, they’re saying, Oh, well now, you know, I refuse to I don’t want to and so it’s an opportunity for investors who like the investment manager to come in and say, Okay, well, I’ll fill your gap, but I only want to pay performance fees on that extra amount that we’re going to invest to help you out. So there’s an opportunity there for people to negotiate a bit more right now, in some cases to get a deal closed that was at the 11th hour already.
J Darrin Gross 24:57
Gotcha. And as far as the the size of opportunity that a family office might be looking to entertain? Can you speak to kind of the range of size that you’ve seen or that some of your clients regularly entertain?
Richard Wilson 25:16
Sure, yeah, I think that um, some investors like the minimum investment size of just 25,000 or 50,000 because it’s almost an extension of their due diligence it’s not super risky they can get to know someone see how that deal goes and invest more. A really common starting places $100,000 investment minimum, I think a common mistake is thinking, Oh, I want to go to family office world. So now I’m gonna set my minimums in 250 or 500, or even a million dollars because now we’re just gonna raise capital from family offices, but many family offices will look at that and say, well forget that, you know, even if we would invest 5 million, we usually start at 300,000 it start at 700,000. So I would just be careful. You know, you can always set up a more sophisticated rule saying first time investors 25 thousand dollars second time you invest a minimum of 100. And then if you need to, you could always say by the third or fourth time, there’s a higher minimum if you’re doing things deal ideal, but I haven’t seen anyone do that. Honestly, I looked at 350 pitch decks from our members, we review those every quarter for them. And no one has that type of a minimum schedule. They’re all either at 100k, or 500 or 1 million. And I’ve seen one at 25,000. That’s well established, they manage 400 million. And everyone tells them they’re crazy to accept 25,000 per investor, but they say we don’t care what they say, because we’re raising 100 million a year right now. And they have a one investor at 150 million. And they have many investors who have one to 2 million with them. And they started them at any of them at 25,000. But they’re doing several deals a year so they’re able to test them out. Okay, yeah, we like you guys. Then they put in a quarter million then they put in half a million so I always like doing you know, like Dan Kennedy is famous for saying if you’re not sure what to do is do the opposite of everyone else. And will everyone else try to go into the family office? Well, high minimums, thinking that’s the way to go. I like that, you know, do the opposite when possible.
J Darrin Gross 27:06
That’s that’s really some great insight there. I think that you know, the the average capital raiser sees you know, the family offices like the golden goose and thinks that they can just get the audience that that’s the chance to land the other big, big fish kind of thing. And what you’re saying is that just as an opportunity to kind of create and nurture that relationship if you let them in at a smaller price and like even said, like, it’s kind of the cost of doing due diligence almost. That’s me that that’s that’s, that’s great. I mean, I’ve just I hadn’t heard that before and I am so appreciative of you sharing it because it you know, it’s funny how, you know, I go back to what was the The Millionaire Next Door book The perception of wealth and what people think the person is and you know, what they’ve got and who they are versus the real underlying core beliefs or, or who they really are the fabric that they come from kind of thing. So that’s great. That’s great.
Richard, if we could for a minute, I’d like to shift gears here. As I mentioned, I’m an insurance broker by day. And we we do risk management, there’s a couple of different strategies we look to. The first is can we avoid the risk? The second is can we minimize the risk? And if we can’t do either of those, can we transfer the risk and that’s, that’s what an insurance policy is. And I like to ask my my guests if they could consider what the BIGGEST RISK is. And, you know, just for clarification, we’re not necessarily looking for a an insurance related answer. But if you would, I’d like to ask you, Richard Wilson, what is the BIGGEST RISK?
Richard Wilson 29:09
For my company, even though we have good managing directors, I think the BIGGEST RISK is myself, you know, I’m driving forward a ton of the new content. You know, when I when I hang up here, we’re doing a 1000 person webinar. And I’ve got someone on my team that could do a webinar on many different topics, but not the same topics I could, you know, fluidly and so it’s kind of like a key man risk. And our business, you know, would have to go down to, you know, a skeleton crew if I got hit by a truck this afternoon, and move forward as much smaller business. So I think it’s just like many entrepreneurs, getting yourself out of your own way and making sure you’re not the bottleneck to growth and making sure that you’ve got kind of a C level team being groomed and built is part of that but also just thinking through things you know, that are insurance related, honestly related to caveman or life insurance, or just You know, if you’re disabled and can’t work for a while, because think that you know, like most businesses that are like mine with 15 employees, you know, you’re trying to grow into a medium sized business from a small business you’re in that in between world where, you know, you’re constantly trying to push stuff down to the team and get a better quality team.
J Darrin Gross 30:20
That’s, that’s insightful and i think it’s it’s true for most businesses is that this reminder of, if you don’t let people do grow, become more in the business you know, and kind of own that position. It is easy to become that bottleneck or kind of, you know, restrict the growth kind of thing so appreciate you sharing that. Sure. Richard, where can the listeners go if they would like to learn more connect with you?
Richard Wilson 30:52
Sure, pretty simple. Familyoffices.com is where there is details on the charter membership and The Family Office Club. We also have links to a lot of resources like our free book on family offices, etc. And in addition to Familyoffices.com if you’re strictly an investor, not selling raising capital by just someone looking to allocate to deals we serve 81 clients that are all investors. And it takes about five minutes to become an investor client by registering on privateequity.com. So if there’s an investor listening, privateequity.com would be the right portal that for anybody Familyoffices.com is kind of the central hub with all the resources there and options get involved.
J Darrin Gross 31:37
Richard, this has been an absolute pleasure. I can’t say thanks so much for taking the time to talk again today. And I hope we can do it again soon.
Richard Wilson 31:47
Yeah, I hope so too, Darrin, thank you so much.
J Darrin Gross 31:49
All right. For our listeners. If you liked this episode, don’t forget to like, share and subscribe. Remember, the more you grow? Excuse me, the more you know, the more you grow. That’s all we’ve got this week. Until next time, thanks for listening to Commercial Real Estate Pro Networks CREPN Radio.
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