John Stoeber  0:00  

Well, I have been looking at Arkansas for apartments before. I really like Northwest Arkansas, where you have Bentonville and the university up in Fayetteville. I mean, like that area is booming. Little Rock is actually never on my radar. I mean, like it’s a pretty stable market. It’s a little higher and crime, but I wouldn’t say it’s like, you know, one of these high growth markets, I just had a great opportunity come my way from someone I trusted, she had a deal under contract, and she needed money and partners to put the deal together. And it’s kind of like your first job to or at least for me, like I didn’t have a ton of options coming out of school, I’d take a job so I can get experience. It’s the same thing with this portfolio where it’s like not my ideal criteria, but it makes sense and it’s just a way for me to get experience and start racking up some wins. Welcome to

Announcer  0:50  

CRE PN Radio for influential commercial real estate professionals who work with investors, buyers and sellers of commercial real estate coast to coast whether you’re an investor, broker, lender, property manager, attorney or accountant We are here to learn from the experts.

J Darrin Gross  1:08  

Welcome to commercial real estate pro networks, CRE PN Radio. Thanks for joining us. My name is J. Darrin Gross. This is the podcast focused on commercial real estate investment and risk management strategies. Weekly we have conversations with commercial real estate investors and professionals who provide their experience and insight to help you grow your real estate portfolio.

Today, my guest is John Stoeber. John uses his background in finance to build financial models and analyze multifamily properties from a number of different perspectives. He currently owns and operates 34 apartments in Little Rock, Arkansas, and is looking for deals in growing markets. And in just a minute we’re going to speak with john about partners deals in the skill set you need to do your first deal.

But first, a quick reminder, if you like our show, CRE PN Radio, there are a couple things you can do. You can like, share and subscribe. And as always, we’d love to hear from you please leave a comment. Also, if you’d like to see how handsome our guests are, be sure to check out our YouTube channel. You can find us on youtube at Commercial Real Estate Pro Network. And while you’re there, please subscribe. With that, I want to welcome my guest, John, welcome to CRE PN Radio. 

John Stoeber  2:33  

Hey, Darren, thanks so much for having me excited to be here today.

J Darrin Gross  2:37  

I’m looking forward to our talk. Before we get started, if you could share with listeners a little bit about your background.

John Stoeber  2:45  

Yeah, um, you know, the short story is I’m just a spreadsheet jockey. But I went to college for you know, accounting and finance, I got a double major and I was on that w two path pretty much since the day I was born. The entire last semester in college, you know, I’m looking for a job and I finally get an offer. And at the time, there was no remote work. So I look at the like the number of vacation days, I’m going to get a look at the salary and I’m just kind of like, this isn’t gonna work. Like this isn’t gonna work for the lifestyle I’m trying to build, which led me on the search for passive income. And on that search, meaning Google, you know, I kind of fell down the real estate rabbit hole. I heard about other investment options like bonds, CDs, dividend stocks, but I was gonna need like a million dollars invested at least just to make like 50 grand a year of passive income. Whereas in real estate, you know, you get tons of other ways to accumulate wealth. Besides the cash flow, you get principal pay down appreciation, tax advantages. And I mean, I’ve always kind of been interested in real estate before getting this job offer. But I’m incredibly not handy. Like I shouldn’t be allowed to touch a hammer so that it always scared me away from it. But as I climbed down the rabbit hole, I started to realize like, okay, I can develop systems, I can hire a lot of this stuff out. So I can do that. So fast forward like nine months, I you know, I graduated college, I’m working my first job. And I had this really long commute from Washington DC to Baltimore, Maryland, and I wanted to get rid of it. So I ended up buying a two unit, you know, duplex to do what’s called house hacking, which is where I had two apartments, I rented one of them, I lived in the other and then my apartment also had a basement. So I rented out the basement so I was living for free and my downpayment on this like owner occupied duplex was like less than five grand and that included like all the closing costs, like everything like I bought a property for less than five grand which is like four or five months rent and in Baltimore like in these coastal markets. So that was awesome. And like yeah, I had to evict my first tenant. Which was kind of nerve racking, because she knew right where I slept. But you know, I evicted her, I put a new tenant in there, I put a tenant in my basement and all of a sudden, I’m living for free. And I kind of caught the bug at that point. So then I’m like, okay, I wanted to graduate and do what’s called the bar method, which is stands for buy, renovate, rent, refinance, and repeat. It’s kind of like, instead of fix and flip, it’s fixing rent, and then you just refinance, all the money you put into the deal back out. So that man, I had to, like tackle this inability of mine to like manage contractors and construction, because like I said, like, I shouldn’t even be allowed to touch a hammer. So I team up with a couple partners. And we go, and we take like the biggest, baddest flip down in Baltimore City, where you’d have 100 plus year old homes, then they’re just absolute shells. So we had one of those where it’s like, all new mechanical systems, new roofs, had to dig out the basement. And then everything else that comes along with that, now is a huge, huge learning curve for me. Like, honestly, was not ready for that big of a project at the time. But while I’m doing that project, you know, one of my partners, he had a four Plex, I had this duplex. And he ran into some issues with his four Plex where like he had to do this really long eviction. No, I had to do an eviction, and I was dealing with like a couple tenant headaches. But like, the light bulb just kind of went off in our head, we’re like, you know, whenever we make a mistake with a four Plex, or the duplex, like, really, our tenants pay for it. So like, as he’ll tell you, he’s like my tenants paid for my eviction. Whereas when we miss something in our rehab budget, like that came out of our pockets, and our bottom line. So like, while we’re doing this, we’re just kind of like, you know, like, let’s just go buy apartments and like bigger multifamily. It’s what we want to do anyways, and like, we really don’t want to work our way out through like, fix and flip and single family. And, and that kind of started this entire journey.

J Darrin Gross  7:01  

Got it? Got it? Well, that’s the you’ve got quite the library there of experience here with, you know, being a landlord with the tenant next door to doing a major flip. I mean, I’m curious on that big flip, you talked about? How long did that take you to do that? From from acquisition to?

John Stoeber  7:22  

I’m assuming you sold that? Yeah, we sold that over a year ago. I mean, we, we thought it was gonna take like three months to do the entire thing. And it took over a year to go from start to finish on that thing.

J Darrin Gross  7:34  

All right. But did you come out ahead. And in the end there, do you make a 

John Stoeber  7:38  

No we we didn’t we did not come out ahead, unfortunately.

J Darrin Gross  7:42  

So is that more of like a he didn’t buy it right? Or what was just over cost overruns? Or your budget? or What was your what it was?

John Stoeber  7:49  

I mean, it was kind of everything? I mean, I don’t think we necessarily bought it wrong. But yeah, like we definitely came in low on the rehab budget, and then the amount of time that we held it just like those holding costs, and especially because we bought it with a hard money loan, like they really into your profit margins. So when you’re thinking that it’s gonna be like a four to a six month, month hold, and ends up being over 12. I mean, those holding costs will crush you.

J Darrin Gross  8:14  

Right, right. Well, you survived, right? Yeah, I’ve always kind of looked at some of the opportunities I’ve jumped into is, it won’t kill me. Right? If it goes wrong, but lessons, I’ll never forget. But Alright, so you, you kind of had the the taste of the flipped in like that, like the landlord, but realize being in something larger than a duplex or a four Plex was really kind of the way to go. You mentioned your partners on there. Did you end up partnering with with your flip partners to get into larger multifamily?

John Stoeber  8:55  

So I still work with one of them, the guy who owns the four Plex, but on the 34 unit portfolio, we’re doing a reposition right now. He’s not part of that deal. But we’re still looking for deals together.

J Darrin Gross  9:07  

Okay. You mentioned your spreadsheet junkie and jockey, and I don’t just say jockey,

John Stoeber  9:15  

Yeah, jockey. Same, same thing. I might as well be a spreadsheet junkie because I’m always on them.

J Darrin Gross  9:21  

Right, right. Right. Um, so let’s, let’s talk a little bit about the, you know, what you saw on the 34 and what you’re doing with a 34 unit property?

John Stoeber  9:33  

Yeah, um, you know, from like, a financial perspective. Yeah, no, yeah.

J Darrin Gross  9:38  

Tell me what, what was it? Tell us about the property and what you saw? And are you doing a value add position or what tell tell us all the juicy detail?

John Stoeber  9:48  

Yeah, we’re, we’re doing actually a really big value add. I mean, this was a distressed property. The person who previously owned this was just completely miss managing it. I mean, no record. or anything, didn’t screen the tenants. But if you look at like these larger commercial properties, like as a flip, you know, like, it’s really not that much different from a single family flip or you know, a bar, it’s just the way you calculate some of the numbers are different. So like, if you’re flipping or you’re doing a bur on a single family house, you’re gonna have your acquisition costs, your renovation costs. And then your ARV, which stands for your after repair value. And like the general rule of thumb is, you know, you want your acquisition costs and your renovations to be 70%, of what you’re gonna sell it for. And then that leaves some room for like, you know, realtor Commission’s holding costs, soft costs, as well as your profit margin. It’s really not that much different when you’re looking at a multifamily property. The key thing, though, is the way you calculate your sales price. So like with a single family house, you’re going to go off of sales comps. And you don’t really have a ton of control over like stretching the market, you know, if similar homes are selling for 200k, like your home is going to sell for 200k. in multifamily and commercial real estate though, the value is based off of the net operating income, and sales, comps do come into play. But like on a basic level, you’re gonna take the net operating income of that property, which is all of the expenses except the mortgage, and then you’re going to divide that by the cap rate in the market. So let’s say you’re making $100,000 of net operating income, which again, is cash flow before your mortgage. And that market cap rate is a 6%, you’re going to take 100k divided by 6%. And that’s you should know this number, it’s like I think it’s less than $2 million, it’s probably like $1.8 million. But so that’s your ARV. And then you’re going to take your your acquisition costs your renovation budget, as well as the other costs. And you’re going to see if you have a spread. So the thing with the little rock portfolio is when a buying 34 units for $800,000, which comes out to 23 and a half k a door, we’re putting five to 10k of rehab into each unit. They’re renting for 650 to 700. Right now it’s all one and two bedrooms. And based off the cap rate, and the other sales comps in the market, we should be able to sell them for 45 to 55k a door. So it’s like you’re all in for probably like 35k a door. And you’re selling them for 45 to 55. It’s like there’s a huge spread on that. And then you’re just calculating your other numbers to to make sure that it’s going to cash flow if you refinance it.

J Darrin Gross  12:41  

Got it, got it. What in Little Rock, what was the Was there an attraction to the market? Or was it more of like a property you found or?

John Stoeber  12:51  

Well, I had been looking at Arkansas for apartments before I really like Northwest Arkansas, where you have Bentonville and the university up in Fayetteville. I mean, like that area is booming. Little Rock is actually never on my radar. I mean, like it’s a pretty stable market. It’s a little higher in crime, but I wouldn’t say it’s like, you know, one of these high growth markets, I just had a great opportunity come my way from someone I trusted, she had a deal under contract. And she needed money and partners to put the deal together. And it’s kind of like your first job to or at least for me, like I didn’t have a ton of options coming out of school, I’d take a job so I can get experience. It’s the same thing with this portfolio where it’s like not my ideal criteria. But it makes sense. And it’s just a way for me to get experience and start racking up some wins.

J Darrin Gross  13:41  

Makes complete sense. So So tell us about you mentioned that you have a partner on this one then did you mentioned somebody had a deal and needed help?

John Stoeber  13:50  

Yeah, so I have a few partners, but she had a deal. I mean, she had this deal locked up. Back in March of 2020. It fell out of contract because COVID hit and you know the partner she was going to buy the deal with ended up bailing, just put it back under contract. And then she had to raise money. And she just said to me, she had to put a team together because she didn’t have all the money to just buy it herself. And she lives in Salt Lake City. So it’s not like she’s in the market. And you know, I can I can run the numbers, I can kind of act as like, I guess like a financial analyst or a CFO on the project to add value and like I had some money to put into the deal.

J Darrin Gross  14:29  

Okay, and so are you did you come in as a as a joint venture? ditch? syndicator. How

John Stoeber  14:36  

did you guys put together? So this is just a joint venture, it’s not a syndication.

J Darrin Gross  14:41  

And so does everybody have different skill sets? Or is or are you guys missing anything? Have you been able to

John Stoeber  14:52  

No, I mean, so I’d say the skill sets are are pretty well rounded. I mean, one of our partners Well, they’re married But they’re like one group, you know, they have a lot of experience managing contractors and renovations, and they also live closest to the property. So they’re like the boots on the ground and the construction managers, my partner who found the deal. I mean, that was basically her role. Like she found the deal. And she also has the most experience managing large commercial real estate. She’s a couple other apartment complexes. I’m kind of like the numbers guy. And then our other partner, Ryan, you know, he’s out there raising money and dealing with the property manager on a daily basis.

J Darrin Gross  15:36  

So when did you close on this? You said it was under contract in March? What When did you guys I’m closing on it?

John Stoeber  15:44  

The end of June.

J Darrin Gross  15:46  

Okay. And where are you in the actually it’s back up here. What was the renovation plan the value add plan.

John Stoeber  15:55  

So the renovation plan was mean, we need to put about, you know, we’re averaging anywhere from four to 6k per unit and renovations. And that’s to put all new, you know, lvp, glue down, flooring down, if appliances need to be replaced, that’s in the budget, new paint, and then some new light fixtures and like handles for you. It’s called like, nickel. You’re not the renovation guy here. But it’s like the stuff you put on your cabinets. Satan nickel, I think. So it’s like five, five grand on average for the interior renovations. And then on one of the properties, like we completely repainted it fixed up a lot of the wood rot on the outside. And we’re installing a lot of new doors on that property too. And we had to repair a gas leak as well.

J Darrin Gross  16:44  

Gas leak needs to be repaired, that’s for sure. Yeah. So how do the rents are you would you serve as a distressed property? Did you? Where were the rents before the renovation? What do you expect the rents to be post renovation?

John Stoeber  17:02  

Great question. So it’s, it’s all one in two beds, and they were renting anywhere from $400 to, you know, 550, but definitely gearing toward like the lower end the four to 450 range. So right now on the renovated units, we’re getting 695 on the two bedrooms that we’re renovating, and 650 on the one bedroom. So on average, it’s like a $200. You know, rent bump per unit.

J Darrin Gross  17:33  

That’s, that’s strong, were there any expenses, you were able to, you know, either eliminate or pass on to the tenant.

John Stoeber  17:43  

So we’re passing on some of our utility bills to the tenants. There haven’t been any expenses we’ve been able to eliminate. Because the seller just I mean, he ran the property into the ground, like he was running it like a 25% expense ratio. And that’s why the property was like in such disrepair and mismanaged because he wasn’t putting any money back into it. So our expenses have gone up. But so has our income. And when you take you know, our current income and our projected income over our stabilized expenses, like our net operating income is going way up over what it was. 

J Darrin Gross  18:19  

Good. Well, that’s the that’s the plan. Right? Yeah. So name of the game. And so what is your your? Where are you in the timeframe here? You said, You started June, you’re seeing a rent bump, 34 units? Are you going to be renovating all of the units? Are you a part of the units? What’s the plan?

John Stoeber  18:40  

So we kind of have it broken out in phases. And right now, I’d say we’re still in phase one. Because this previous owner didn’t do any sort of tenant screening, we had really low economic occupancy when we took over what I mean by economic is, you know, people may have been living in the units, but they weren’t paying. So our occupancy was like in the 30% range 30 35% when we took over, we’ve just gotten that into like, the 60 to 70% range, and we cover all of our bills plus the debt service now. So we have a few more units that were were already renovated, and we’re leasing them up. Once those are leased up, I’d say that begins phase two. Phase Two is really just a decision we have to make, do we flip the property and make a whole bunch of money on the sale right now? Or do we go to a bank refinance out because we’re on a we’re on seller financing right now and get a construction loan, and finish off the rest of the units that need to be renovated and they just cash flow for five years. So that’s a decision that our team still estimate but both of those options are on the table.

J Darrin Gross  19:52  

Let me ask you, you mentioned the economic occupancy being low and then we’ve got COVID going on. What what’s been your? How have you been? You know, how have you dealt with a situation with people not pain? And COVID? Have you been able to evict or correct that? Or what’s the whole? How have you dealt with him?

John Stoeber  20:18  

Yeah, that’s a that’s a great question. Fortunately for us, most of the evictions we’ve done haven’t gone through, the tenants haven’t even shown up to court. So they’re cases just thrown out, and we win. And we’ve been able to evict them. For some of them. And we’ve had a couple, I think we’ve had two, who actually like turned in the CDC paperwork, meaning they’re protected by the moratorium, but they’re on month to month leases. And they’re not like very good residents to begin with. And they’re, like loud, obnoxious, we don’t really want them to be part of the community anyways. So we can, what we’re trying to do is getting is get them out on tenant holdover, like we’re just not renewing their lease. And then if they don’t leave the property, you know, we can get them out for tenant holdover, or breach of lease, which is kind of the avenue we’re going. And there’s all sorts of like rental assistance programs out there. So we came up with like a flyer that said, like, Hey, you know, here’s the numbers, here’s the emails, like you guys need to call them, and they can potentially help you pay the rent. And we actually just had our first tenant who applied for, or she like, filled out the CDC paperwork. She just got a big rental assistance check last week.

J Darrin Gross  21:33  

Did she pay you the rent showed?

John Stoeber  21:35  

Yeah, you know, no, like, it came to us. Oh, rental assistance. Yeah, they mail it directly to the landlord. Okay.

J Darrin Gross  21:44  

Like that was one of the challenges a lot of landlords have felt was the tenant get the money, but the landlord didn’t get the money?

John Stoeber  21:51  

Yeah. Like, it wasn’t like she got stimulus. This was just like some local nonprofit.

J Darrin Gross  21:57  

Gotcha, gotcha. So So basically, it sounds like you guys are coming up on, you know, completing phase one, you got it economically viable? It’s, it’s covering the debt, you’re kind of facing that question here. Do you continue or flip this thing and, and go on to another property? Is there a timeline for that decision?

John Stoeber  22:24  

Probably probably by summer, we’ll have to make that decision. Because we closed on it in June. And we don’t want to sell it within a year, because then we’ll get taxed at an ordinary rate. Or as if we wait for a year, it’ll get taxed at the long term capital gains rate.

J Darrin Gross  22:40  

Right, right. So let’s, let’s dive into this a little bit. See, we talked a little bit about your partner’s everybody. Good fit? I mean, you you guys talking about going and doing additional deals after this? Or is this kind of like a one and done everybody go their separate way?

John Stoeber  22:58  

That’s a good question. I like Firstly, we’re I think we’re all just going to wait and see, like, what happens with this deal. I mean, so far, I think it’s been a good experience for all of us. But none of us have, like 1000s of units and decades of experience. For most of us, except for the partner who found it like this is our first multifamily deal. And for the other partners who have like the renovation and construction experience, I mean, they’ve owned like a pretty large rental portfolio before, but it was in their backyard where they self managed it. So like, this is completely brand new to all of them. And there’s definitely been a learning curve. So it’s kind of like this joint venture was put together pretty quickly to get the deal close. So I guess we’re just gonna see what happens when it’s all said and done.

J Darrin Gross  23:49  

Got it. So with that, is there anything that you would look for going forward when you’re looking for partners?

John Stoeber  23:59  

Well, I think I mean, you should be looking for people who have similar values to you and then have, you know, skill sets that complement yours. So like for me, it’d be great to connect with someone who like is great at managing construction contractors and renovations because I don’t like doing that. And then capital is just a huge part of this business because if you go out and you’re buying one 200 unit properties, which is where I’d like to go, I mean, you’re talking about you’re gonna need to raise millions of dollars.

J Darrin Gross  24:31  

Right, all right. What about looking forward for deals here? We talked about you know, you’d been a couple and and realize that multiples were the, the, you know, had a much better advantage as opposed to the singles and or flipping. And you mentioned that Arkansas was kind of on your radar but but not necessarily literal rock. Is there there anything that you can point As far as lessons you’ve learned, or things you’d look for going forward and when you’re looking for a deal.

John Stoeber  25:09  

So when I’m looking for a deal, or like when I’m looking at a market? 

J Darrin Gross  25:12  

Well deal and market, I guess.

John Stoeber  25:15  

I mean, when I’m looking for a deal, and there’s a lot more due diligence, I would do going in next time, especially physical do really all due diligence, physical due diligence, and financial due diligence. And you just, you can’t know what you don’t know until you’ve actually done it. I mean, I knew a bit more about like construction and renovations now. So I mean, I’d be going there with like, multiple contractors, my property management company, and ideally an inspector and just getting all their perspectives, and really questioning the contractor like, how is how are you coming up with, with your bid, because you’re just gonna throw out a number, like, I need to know what that encompasses. So I can make my own decision, whether it’s enough to get the work done. As far as like identifying the market. It’s interesting, because like this deal, it’s not in a hot market. But I would do another one like it again, even if it’s not in like a high growth market. Just because the spread on it is so great. I mean, we’re talking about being all in for $35,000, a unit, which includes all the holding and the soft costs, and selling for 45 to 55, or refinancing at that value. Like if it works out, you know, all of our networks are going to grow a lot. So I would definitely consider something like that in a more stable market. But really like Florida, too, and I have a partner who lives there. He’s boots on the ground. And that’s just got, like all the demographics you could want in a market.

J Darrin Gross  26:50  

No, it’s that’s definitely both of those the, you know, find the deal in the markets. I mean, you know, I’m kind of curious to hear any thoughts on the market? Based on, you know, the COVID experience? Is there any as COVID changed your, your thoughts on where you might look for a property?

John Stoeber  27:15  

Yeah, it actually has, um, I was kind of really hell bent on being in these big primary markets before COVID. Because that’s where all the jobs were, and people weren’t working remotely as much. Now, though, I mean, it seems like the trend is people are moving away from these big, major cities, especially the high cost of living ones like New York City, and you know, pretty much everywhere in California. And they’re moving to places like Florida, and Texas, the southeast, where it’s more affordable to live, taxes tend to be lower. And now you have all this remote work, so you can kind of live wherever you want. And act like I moved to Denver earlier this year, because I still have a W two and like, I can work remotely now. So I’m just like, I want to live here, I’m going to move. So I think finding markets to where there’s just like things to do, and people want to live. So in the southeast, you have warm weather and beaches. In places like Colorado, you have the mountains, so like looking for attractions like that, like that, with still a strong employment base and a strong economy. I think that’s gonna be pretty key to identifying markets. And you could probably pick some great small tertiary markets that way.

J Darrin Gross  28:35  

The the skill sets, you know, what do you see as the skill sets you have to have, whether it be you personally or on your team in order to get into your first deal and be competent.

John Stoeber  28:52  

So I think there’s like three legs to be buying big commercial real estate, you have to be able to find the deal if people manage the deal, and you have to be able to raise money. So if you if your team has all those legs filled out, you’re probably a rockstar team. With the guys I work with right now at Cronos. That’s our company. I think we do a great job at identifying the deals because I think we’re really strong at analyzing the deals. And we’re definitely picking up our on our ability to raise capital. And through this experience and Little Rock, you know, now we have real asset management experience. But if you’re just starting out, at least like what I would do is I would focus on one of those legs, and then pick like a skill set within that leg. So like for me, it was finding deals. And then I’m a spreadsheet jockey. So part of finding deals is being able to analyze them and identify them. So like I focused on that. If you’re really good at developing relationships with people and networking. Maybe You know, you’re the one who’s talking with the brokers and developing those relationships, or you’re the one talking with ambassadors and raising money.

J Darrin Gross  30:08  

Yeah, no, it makes sense. Yeah, I mean, definitely three critical pieces there. And and having people that are strong in each of those would definitely propel your, the chance of your success. That makes sense. JOHN, if we could, I’d like to shift gears here for a second. By day, I’m an insurance broker, and work with my clients to assess risk and determine what to do with the risk. And there are three strategies we typically consider. The first is we look to see if we can avoid the risk. If we can’t avoid it, then we look to see if we can minimize the risk. And when neither of those are options, we look to see if we could transfer the risk. And that’s what an insurance policy is as a risk transfer vehicle. And I like to ask my guests, if they can look at their own situation, their investments, their clients, the investors in their deals, tenants, the market interest rates, however, you want to identify, you know, then the question for the answer. But I’d like to ask you about biggest risk. And for clarity, I’m not necessarily looking for an insurance related answer. But if you’re willing, I’d like to ask you, john Stober, what is the biggest risk?

John Stoeber  31:40  

Right now, I still think COVID. And just the environment we’re in is the biggest risk, especially if you’re dealing with C class properties, you tend to deal with residents who are on the lower end of the socio economic scale. So these are the people that you know, their servers, waitresses, receptionist, they actually have to go into work. So if there’s a shutdown, like, they’re not going into work, or if they get COVID, like, and they may not have a job anymore. So I think that is a huge risk, like from a property perspective, but also with this, like the home market right now. And it you know, it’s February 2021. Like the whole market just seems crazy. If you’re, if you and your listeners have been, like paying attention. I mean, just look at gamestop, AMC Dogecoin. It’s just like it seems very unstable right now. Kind of bubbly and frothy. And like, I don’t know if the lending market is going to be the same 12 months from now where people are able to get loans so freely. And if you can’t get loans, that really drives down the number of buyers who can buy a property, which in turn is going to drive down values.

J Darrin Gross  33:00  

Yeah, that’s definitely some some things to pay attention to. And hopefully, they don’t come to fruition as far as a negative effect there, but always arrest. That’s good. JOHN, Where can the listeners go if they would like to learn more connect with you?

John Stoeber  33:21  

Yeah, I’m pretty active on Facebook and social media. So just reach out to me at john Stover or on Instagram at john underscore Stover. You can check us out at our website Kronosinvestmentpartners.com. We have our own podcast called the millennials and multifamily podcast so you can check that out. And we have a free book called How to analyze big apartment buildings and make them feel small.

J Darrin Gross  33:49  

Cool. Tell me how to spell the the coronas or the

John Stoeber  33:54  

K r o n as a Nancy Oh, S.

J Darrin Gross  33:59  

Got it. Got it.

All right. Well, john, I can’t say thanks enough for taking the time to talk today. I’ve enjoyed it. learned a lot and I look forward to doing it again soon.

John Stoeber  34:12  

Thank you so much, Darrin.

J Darrin Gross  34:13  

All right. For our listeners. If you liked this episode, don’t forget to like, share and subscribe. Remember, the more you know, the more you grow. That’s all we’ve got this week. Until next time, thanks for listening to Commercial Real Estate Pro Networks. CRE PN Radio.

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