Trevor Crow 0:00
You know, I often get a call, I get calls from people who say, Hey, we want to, we want to do real estate deals. And we want to, and maybe we’ve done a few in the past and been successful. But now we want to do it on a on a bigger scale. And so we want to, what we want to do is raise a fund, we want to raise, we want to get a bunch of capital in and we’re going to go chase deals, real estate deals, and a lot of times they say, you know, I say all right, do you have you know, properties lined up or in the pipeline or locked up in that with a purchase and sale agreement, or at least an option or a term sheet? And they say, No, you know, we just want to raise the money and then go look for him. And inevitably that that fails, unless you’re, you know, a big institutional real estate company that that has a long track record. It’s really hard to raise money unless you have a specific project because investors just say, hey, show me that what projects you want to invest you want to what project what the project is, and I’ll decide whether I want to invest or not.
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J Darrin Gross 1:00
Welcome to Commercial Real Estate Pro Networks CREPN Radio. Thanks for joining us. My name is J Darrin Gross. This is the podcast focused on commercial real estate investment and risk management strategies. Weekly we have conversations with commercial real estate investors and professionals who provide their experience and insight to help you grow your real estate portfolio. Today my guest is Trevor Crow, founder of Crow Legal LLC, Trevor founded Crow Legal LLC to deliver sophisticated and practical legal solutions for companies looking for an alternative to a large law firm. His focus in business transactions include complex joint ventures, and syndicated real estate deals. And in just a minute, we’re going to speak with Trevor about real estate joint ventures. And But first, a quick reminder, if you like our show, CREPN Radio, there are a couple of things you can do. You can like, share and subscribe. And as always, we would encourage you to leave a comment. We’d love to hear from our listeners. Also, if you want to see how handsome our guests are, be sure to check out our YouTube channel. And you can find us on You Tube at Commercial Real Estate Pro Network. And I’d like to encourage you to to subscribe there as well. With that, I want to welcome my guest, Trevor, welcome to CREPN Radio.
Trevor Crow 2:54
Hey, Darren, thanks for having me.
J Darrin Gross 2:56
You bet. I am looking forward to our conversation today. But before we get started, if you could take just a minute and share with listeners a little about your background.
Trevor Crow 3:07
Sure. So I grew up in the Denver area I’m still in Denver now it’s where I Crow Legal is based. And we I went to law school at DU Denver University and graduated in 2009, which was not a good year to graduate law school. There was a right in the downturn in the economy and and law firms weren’t hiring. And so, you know, I had to had to deal with that initially. And I think really think that’s a big part of my background. Actually, that’s why I mentioned it and came out then. And, you know, had to the firm I was supposed to go to kind of had to retract the offer that I had because the work was just so slow, especially in the transactional area.
But anyway, they ended up bringing me back there and long story short, I bounced around to three different law firms and Denver, mid sized law firms, you know, from 20 to 50 lawyers and made partner at one of them in 2017, and was a partner there for a year. And then I decided to, and that was mainly a real estate firm. And so that’s kind of where I got a lot of my real estate experience. And then ended up in February of 2018 jumping out on my own starting Crow Legal and did did that. And since then, you know, we’ve kind of took off and I’m kind of a boutique transactional firm in Denver. doing deals we I mean, we do deals all over the US but focusing on real estate joint ventures, syndicated real estate deals. We represent both investors and promoters and developers. And yeah, so I currently have two other attorneys that have I’ve hired since I started the firm and in our three attorney shop and just trying to make our way.
J Darrin Gross 4:57
Well, congrats on surviving the start in the market you’re in and and, you know, pulling the ripcord and going out on your own. I know that’s always a thought a lot of people have and to actually do it is a whole nother thing. So congrats on that.
Trevor Crow 5:14
J Darrin Gross 5:17
So, real estate. You mentioned your, your, your background, and what you learn there, the firm where you were made partner. Can you describe kind of the breadth of types of transactions and what you’re doing with real estate?
Trevor Crow 5:37
Yeah, so, you know, typically, again, we were representing either the investors or the developer or promoters in a real estate deals. And so, you know, really our, my our focus is not so much on the purchase and sale agreement and locking up the property. A lot of times what we’re drafting is all the entity documents and so we’re doing the operating agreements. And when I say syndicated real estate deals, I’m talking about ones where, you know, there’s a developer who’s gonna have to raise part of the equity. You know, usually a real estate transaction involves a bank loan, which covers part of it, then there’s going to be, you know, equity that they developers or investors are putting in. And so a lot of times, developers don’t want to put in all their money into the one project or either because they don’t have all the money or even if they did, they don’t want to sink it all into just one project. They want to do several projects. And so they go out and they find investors and so with that, they have to raise the money and comply with securities laws. And so we’ll draft all the securities documents will draft all the entity documents and we’ll help navigate all those. And you know, that the joint venture agreement or what I call it joint venture agreement, typically in the form of a operating agreement for an LLC, that is the buyer of the real estate, is is very complex document, depending on the parties involved, and that sort of thing. And so we’ve really carved out a niche and being able to draft those operating agreements and represent either that either the seller or I’m sorry, either the investors or the promoters on those deals.
J Darrin Gross 7:12
Gotcha. And you mentioned joint venture versus syndication kind of thing. Can you distinguish between the two structures or what the differences?
Trevor Crow 7:25
Yeah, you know, there’s there it’s kind of one in the same honestly, what what when I say joint venture is because, at least in my world, there’s attorneys who say they can draft operating agreements for, you know, draft an LLC operating agreement, so somebody forms it and an LLC and whatever state what governs that LLC is the LLC act as well as an operating agreement, which is what is put together to kind of govern the management, the how the economics, work distributions, allocations, all that is built into the operating agreement and You know, an operating room for an for a business say it’s an engineering company. And there’s three, three engineers who get together, they want to start an engineering company. And you could add, they could form an LLC. And there could be an operating agreement for that. But that operating agreement is going to be very different from what I’m calling a joint venture operating agreement, one where there’s somebody who’s managing the the deal, the real estate project, so again, probably a developer, or just a value add sort of real estate person. Somebody who’s going to go and lock down the property get it locked in and a purchase and sale agreement and is going to manage the property either develop it from ground up or is going to do some you know, value add renovations to it, and get at least up or whatever they’re going to do. And so there’s that party, but there also may have to go out and get equity from other people so other investors to come in and put money in so they can close on the on the real estate and, and so When I say syndicated deal, it’s any sort of deal where they’re going out and getting investors to invest in it.
J Darrin Gross 9:07
Okay, we’re like passive investors as opposed to active kind of thing.
Trevor Crow 9:12
Right? Exactly. So it’s gonna be, you know, the manager or the general partner who’s controlling all the operations, but there’s going to be limited partners or, you know, just passive members of the LLC that are investing money in the project and, and you know, want to get a return, they get usually some sort of preferred return and return to capital. And then there’s a, some sort of split after that where the developer gets all their money because they sell the project for a big profit, you know, five years from now.
J Darrin Gross 9:42
Right? Do you tend to deal and more of like, development projects or a lot of like, I think the common term is value add guys are buying an existing property, they’re going to go in and renovate some increased rent. To increase the NOI, value and then liquidate. Is there any? I mean, do you do one more than the other? Or is it kind of can you describe? Your your?
Trevor Crow 10:12
Yeah. Yeah, the allocation of practice there. So it really is probably 50/50 honestly, right now, at least. We’re doing several working on several ground up development deals. And so buying raw land and developing it, which adds a you know, a whole new element to it because you have the whole entitlement and permitting process and things like that and, and more agreements involved because you have general contractors that need to be hired, and, and that sort of thing. But we also do a lot of just the, the value add type projects where, you know, it’s could be in multifamily buying an apartment building, or it could be, you know, an industrial warehouse or it could be just, you know, retail, commercial properties and so we that are existing, and they’re just trying to you know, Like I said, either do some renovations and increase rent or get at least up and be better at marketing it or something like that, and then flipping it later.
J Darrin Gross 11:10
Gotcha. And for the, the, the key principle of the party that sponsoring the the deal. Can you walk through some of the, I guess the the risks and the benefits of working on a deal like this, as opposed to, you know, taking an all on themselves or, or maybe not going out and finding investors and I guess I’m trying to differentiate between, you know, the opportunity, the risk reward of the of the model of going into this with a joint venture syndication model.
Does that make sense?
Trevor Crow 11:49
Yeah, it’s so I think the risk reward from the developer side is, you know, if they put no one if they’re putting all their money into it, because typically Banks not going to provide 100% financing. So you know, then then they’ve kind of put all their eggs in one basket. And but on the back end, you know what, if you bring in investors, one, you have to deal with them. And so they may have certain rights and decision, major decision rights or things like that, that they’re negotiating. And they may have misaligned interest in that they they want to sell the property at a certain time versus when, you know, the developer wants to sell it, and things like that. So you certainly have some push pull there and potential risk with just having other in other people involved in the project. Now, the other thing from the economic standpoint is, you know, the, how the distribution waterfalls typically work, at least in the deals that we’re been involved in, is, you know, it’s gonna you have the property, let’s just say it’s a multifamily existing property and they’re going to be collecting rents, you know, at it. As soon as they buy it, they’re going to start collecting rents. And so they have money coming in and that that cash flow usually goes out first to pay the investors. And so, you know, maybe the, the sponsor of the project takes a management fee as part of it. And so that’s kind of how they stay afloat. But really, their their big payday comes at the end of the day when they sell it, because hopefully they’ve added value, they’ve leased up the property, and now they can sell it for a much higher price than they paid for it. And at that point, the money flows out first to the investors give them all their capital back 11% on on their money for the time period that they’ve owned it, and then the money usually split in some sort of 80/20 fashion or 70/30 fashion where, you know, 80% goes to all the investors or anybody who committed capital to the or made capital contributions to the entity and then the rest is coming out as a as a promote to the, to the developer of the sponsor, and so, you know that 20% or 30% they get on the back end is really their payday. And so they’ve kind of taken a risk that, you know, their big payday for all their work doesn’t come out until till the end of the day.
J Darrin Gross 14:19
Yeah, no I the, you know, the cycle of the deal. I appreciate you kind of going through that because I think a lot of people get kind of wound up in the, you know, the, the passive investor side of things, not really talking about the sponsor side of what, you know, what they stand to gain, but also that their their interests are aligned with their investors. I mean, if your investors aren’t, if you don’t, you know, satisfy your investors. I’m assuming you’re not going to make your money, right. I mean, the investors are in line ahead of you, as far as getting their return and you get your management fee along the way. Like I said, it’s kind of something to sustain you, but not necessarily that The big win that that everybody is looking for. And in your experience what’s been like a typical hold period for for some of these properties?
Trevor Crow 15:16
So the hold period has varied but usually I see where everybody is trying to have some sort of either five to 10 year period of when we’re going to try to turn the property round now different different sponsors have different thesis is on on the property and theories on when they’re going to do it. And so some think that it may happen earlier and try to push for that try to you know, do a quicker sale and in two to three years, but usually, I would say most investments are in the the five to 10 year timeframe.
J Darrin Gross 15:53
And as far as the size of deal, what can you give us a range of the purchase In the capital raise kind of range of, of size of deals that you you’ve worked with?
Trevor Crow 16:08
Yeah, so we we’ve kind of gone across the board on that. So we’ve, you know, done $90 million real estate fund and worked on that, which was obviously doing multiple properties. And we’ve also done we do have a lot of clients that are just kind of the the side side hustle mom and pop it real estate investors that are going out and but they have friends and family who contribute and invest money in these projects. And so they’re just buying, you know, an office building for, you know, a million dollars or something like that. But usually it’s in that range, I would say, I mean, just real estate prices have gone up. So real estate in general is expensive. But most of our deals are kind of in that, I would say a million to $10 million range.
J Darrin Gross 17:00
Trevor Crow 17:02
and that’s total purchase price. So sometimes the raise the, the, you know, the investors that they’re getting, you know, are well, on the fund part, they were actually raising $90 million. And so that that was a big one for us, but the, you know, in a smaller one off project, it’s, you know, they could be raising anywhere from 250,000 to, you know, a million dollars.
J Darrin Gross 17:26
Gotcha. Gotcha. You know, talking about kind of the financial risk reward there that we were talking about. Have you had any issues or any stories where you’ve had kind of a mutiny or or where the investors have been so dissatisfied that they’ve, you know, sued the sponsor in any kind of tales like that, that are some cautionary tales that you can tell things you’ve seen? I mean, I’m sure that your documents are set to where, you know, if this happens, this is where this where you go to, but I know that that’s, that’s always the plan, but in reality can deviate from that and anything that you can share with us.
Trevor Crow 18:14
Yeah, certainly. So yeah, and it’s come up and in a lot of times, it’s the timeframe question where investors want to, to sell and, and get their money out and, and the promoters don’t want to sell at this time either because they think the market is going to turn and for the better or if they had a little bit more time, they could get a better rate. And, you know, the thing to consider there is, you know, from the investor standpoint, if if the project sells would sell for enough for them to get their capital returned and the preferred return, you know, some some percentage on their money that they’ve put in, they may be okay with the sale, but the promoter hasn’t, you know, they only get paid if it’s just enough. Return capital and the preferred return. And they don’t get that big payday at the end. And so their, their incentive is to keep it and hold it and hope to get a higher price because that’s where they make all their money. Whereas the investors may say, Well, you know, we don’t need to even get to that split yet. And we Let’s sell now and cash out. And so that’s come up. And, you know, often in these joint venture agreements, there’s a major decision rights and major decision rights usually require a these are the big items, you know, taking out more debt, selling the property entering into you know, affiliated in a contract, something like that. And so that can be that can be a point of contention down the road and so we always like to make clear, make it clear on who can make that decision and when in these joint venture agreements. The other the other thing I would point out is you know, you typically there’s ability to remove the promoter so if the promoter and take away their promote if they do Something bad. It could be usually included in that it’s, you know, fraud, gross negligence, things like that. And so obviously, if they commit that, and the investors can remove that person, as manager, take away their promote, and you know, theoretically at least hire somebody else to come in there and manage the project. And, you know, the issue with that sometimes is that we had a deal before where there was the principles of the developer or the promoter company, were really good people. Unfortunately, they hired somebody who was who was doing maintaining the books, who was skimming off the top, and so technically, the company had committed fraud. And so luckily, we had investors in there who were friendly enough not to remove you know, the us as manager or my clients as manager and take away their promote they we did have to reimburse the company for the amount that was stolen and obviously went after the the bookkeeper who was skimming off the top but there’s You know, technically that was a, that was fraud and they could have been removed. And so something to be aware of that, you know, if you’re running a larger operation and you have employees, you know, that can can lead you into a really bad situation. Luckily, you know, in all other respects, they’ve been managing the property very well. And and doing all the right things. And so, you know, the mistake, the hiring mistake didn’t lead to them actually losing it, but something something to be aware of there, too, which I’ve seen.
J Darrin Gross 21:30
Yeah, it’s, it’s always scary to some of the schemes that people cook up. I know, my dad was a banker, career banker, and occasionally when I didn’t have any funds to do something over spring break, he’d say you want to get a job in the bank because I go, okay. And, you know, it’d be a few months later and he’d go you remember so and so? Gosh darnit, I caught them stealing, you know, and, and, you know, be a dinner or something like that, you know, and it was always some elaborate little scheme. You know, how they met came out with it, but it’s, you know, it happens quite a bit.
So, you know, you mentioned the, the investors want to sell the sponsors not ready to sell. Is that kind of the the more of the focal point of issues you’ve seen? I mean, I know you mentioned the you know, if the operators not the operator commits fraud or whatever they can be taken out but, but as far as I’m just looking for, or I guess I’m asking about just anything friction that comes from the investor side. I know once you you know, if it’s, if it’s you and me, we can probably agree on a lot of things. We’re bringing somebody else and all sudden now we got a third person and and then you just continue to multiply that Rubik’s cube to where it’s not always easy to get everybody on the same page or you think they are because they signed all the documents that you know, to enroll in the deal. I’m just kind of curious, any other points of friction that you run into? Or if you’ve seen?
Trevor Crow 23:08
Yeah, you know, another big one I would say is additional capital contributions. So if the idea of that project is we’re going to go in there, we’re going to renovate and do some things, and it’s going to help us increase rents or whatever it is to add value to the property. You know, typically, there’s a budget that’s put out right and says, here’s what it’s gonna cost to do all this and this is why we’re raising this money. And it’s hard to put together budgets, because they’re not always correct. And so the, you know, investors usually want to put in their money, and they don’t want to put any anymore. They said, you know, this, you you you’ve told me, this is the budget, this is the project, I’m investing this amount of money and I don’t want to put in any more. But that can put the, the promoter or sponsor in a bad position because if they don’t hit those budget targets, and they Need more capital than then what are they going to do, they either need to put in the money themselves, or they need to get more bank financing, which is a lot is hard to do. And or they need to go back to the investors. And so, you know, this gets negotiated in most of these agreements. And it’s kind of a point of contention on, on whether they can or can’t force the investors to make additional capital contributions. And, you know, it kind of is a negotiation that goes back and forth. But even in the case where there is required additional capital contributions to, you know, either cover an operating deficit or a development cost, deficit or overrun, then, you know, a lot of times there’s a that can lead to friction between the investors and the sponsor. And in that investors are saying, you know, what happened? You, you had this, you had this budget, how come we’re off? Why are you asking me for more money? And, you know, no matter what the document says, there’s still that friction. That’s created in potential disputes between the parties there that’s, you know, uncomfortable to navigate. So, you know, we always try to make sure that when we’re representing sponsors, especially first time, people who are really doing this, to make sure they have enough, either additional capital themselves or additional line of credit with a bank, or they have, you know, built in enough buffer in that budget to say, you know, there could be cost overruns here on some of these things.
J Darrin Gross 25:32
No, I know a number of my projects. They’ve all i don’t know that anything’s ever come in under budget or time. bills are settled saying good, cheaper, fast. Pick two, you know, yeah. And so I think the, the, you know, especially with I tend to believe that’d be a bigger issue with a lesser experienced operator. Because I’m guessing that your more experienced operator has learned that lesson. Also, I would I would guess would make it difficult to go raise capital. If that’s your if that’s the rumor on the street is the project you did. I mean that the people that you had in the first deal probably aren’t going to sign up to do a second deal. If that’s that’s your experience base. So that’s, that’s good to know.
So from a passive investor standpoint, what are some things you can you can point to that passive investors should look at or be aware of when engaging in a joint venture or syndication as far as you know, the the agreements or the the operator, are there any kind of things you can point to?
Trevor Crow 26:52
Certainly, yeah, so the A lot of times these get these agreements get drafted and and investors don’t really pay much much attention to it depending on, you know, obviously, if it’s a big institutional investor or just a big, you know, investor who’s putting in a lot of money, they’re gonna do their due diligence more than if you have a around, you know, you’re raising money and you’re getting it from small amounts from 20 different people that are all friends and family, they may just be buying into the person as opposed to the projects, you know, so they’re not paying attention to the documents as much. But the big hammer that I think if you’re a passive investor that you want to kind of have on your side is one that there’s budgets that need to be approved. And so the budgets come in in the beginning, and, and an annual budget is comes every year, and it’s improved, approved by the investors or certain percentage of the investors. And so that that’s one big thing. And then that kind of ticks, ties to a lot of other decisions, you know, so that the manager or the promoter can’t really make a lot of decisions outside of the budget, if it’s in the budget, and it’s been approved. They make those decisions. If it’s if we start getting outside the budget, then that’s go back to the class A members for approval. Also sale of the project approval of that by the, by the Class A members or, or I’m sorry, I say Class A because a lot of times the investors come in as a separate class, but really just the investor members have the ability to, to approve a sale or have to be it has to be brought to a vote of the members to approve a sale. And a certain percentage of those investors have to vote for it for it to happen. You know, those major decision rights are really the big ones that a passive investor should look for. So there’s not just a unfettered, unfettered ability for the manager to do or promoted to do whatever they they want. And, and I keep going back on these terms, you know, I sometimes people call managers sometimes they call it a promoter, sometimes they call it a sponsor. I’m using those terms synonymously as the same thing, it’s really the the person who’s kind of bringing the deal to the table and going to be managing the project.
J Darrin Gross 29:06
Understood, I appreciate you clarifying that because I know I, I think I’m pretty clear on that. But I know that it’s easy to get, you know, kind of mixed up on who’s on first what’s on second and, and you realize they’re all the same or whatever. So, in the spectrum of, you know, doing a deal, there’s a, an investor out there that wants to you know, do a project, raise capital, you know, get their ducks in a row and and, and go out and do a project and you know, be be a developer do be a deal sponsor. Are there some checklist items that you can point to that, that you recommended. They, you know, whether it be time experience resume, you know, any of all or all of the above? Is there a Is there a list when you when somebody calls you up and says, Hey, Trevor, this is what I want to do. Is, is there a kind of a list of things you can recommend the they’d be ready for?
Trevor Crow 30:21
Yeah, I would say, one. So what happens? Now I’ll kind of approach this question in a little different way. But you know, I often get a call, get calls from people who say, Hey, we want to we want to do real estate deals, and we want to and maybe we’ve done a few in the past and been successful. But now we want to do it on a on a bigger scale. And so we want to, what we want to do is raise a fund, we want to raise we want to get a bunch of capital in and we’re going to go chase deals, real estate deals,. And a lot of times they say, you know, I say all right, do you have you know, properties lined up or in the pipeline or locked up in that with a purchase and sale agreement or lease to an option or a term sheet. And they say no, you know, we just want to raise the money and then go look for him. And, and inevitably that that fails unless you’re, you know, a big institutional real estate company that that has a long track record. It’s really hard to raise money unless you have a specific project because investors just say, hey, show me that what projects you want to invest? You want to what project what the project is, and I’ll decide whether I want to invest or not, not many people want to make a capital commitment or an investment. Before they they see that. So this this blind pool fund idea is is very hard to pull off. And so, you know, I think a lot of people get that idea in their head. And it’s a lot tougher than you think just because investors aren’t aren’t going to put up money. So that that leads to the answer to your question, I think is one, you know, have have an idea of the properties that you’re looking at at least have a pipeline of properties.
But at the same time, you know, it’s kind of a chicken in the egg thing where you have to also have investors lined up or at least, you know, soft circled somewhere that that have said, Yeah, we’re interested if you find a good deal. And, and so you want to have those relationships in place, because if you already, if you find the project first and then try to start making those conversations, it’s the timing gets tough. So you’re kind of doing both of those at the same time you’re looking for deals. At the same time you’re talking to investors, telling them kind of what you’re looking at what you’re what you’re thinking about, and getting people excited or interested in so that you at least have a few few people that you have on board that you you know, as soon as you have that project in the door that you can send it to them and say, Hey, what do you think of this? And, and so that that’s important. Having, you know, an idea of the budget is important and something to think about from the beginning. Having your your your team lined up, you know, I think you want to have You got to move quickly on these things. So you need a real estate lawyer to draft the purchase and sale agreement you need, you know, a corporate lawyer or somebody who does entity documents, like me to help with the finding, or putting together that the operating agreements and investor documents that go out. Having, you know, your a good description of viewer track record, you know, any sort of bio on your history, you know, that’s important to investors. Although those things I think are important to think about and kind of have I know, that’s, those are more general rule then kind of a strict checklist, but those are the big things. I think that somebody who’s trying to put together and take take in investments and do real estate deals needs to consider before they’re doing it.
J Darrin Gross 33:55
I appreciate you, you know, taking us through that the I think there’s always This notion if you have the deal, the money will follow. And, and I’ve heard that if you’re, if you’re at a standing start or if you’re at a stop, and you’re waiting to start until you have the deal, you may have waited too long. I mean, kind of like you’re, you’re, you know, kind of putting the feelers like you mentioned is kinda like a juggling act you’re you’re you’re trying to stay in communication with potential investors and let them know kind of what you’re looking at and, and but before you get the formal offer, I mean have a property in mind and in kind of a direction because it seems like the the clock starts right I mean, as soon as you signed the documents, the you know, the bullets are live kind of thing. It’s, it’s, you know, no, no longer nerf kind of thing. It’s that’s the real thing you’ve got, you’ve got timelines and money. And if you don’t meet those timelines, there’s real money on the line kind of thing. So I appreciate that.
If we could, Trevor, I’d like to shift gears here for a second. I mentioned to you before we started that, by day, I’m an insurance broker. And I work with my clients to manage risk. And, you know, assess the risk and determine what to do with it. And there’s a couple of different strategy strategies we typically consider. The first is can we avoid the risk if we can’t avoid it, and we look to see if there’s a way to minimize the risk. And then lastly, if we’re not able to do the minimize or avoid, we look to transfer the risk. And I like to ask my guests if they can identify what they consider to be the BIGGEST RISK? And you know, basically take a look at your operation your customers you, you can frame it however you want to. And again, for clarity sake, I’m not necessarily looking for an insurance related answer. But if you’re willing, I’d like to ask you, Trevor Crow, what is the BIGGEST RISK??
Trevor Crow 36:09
So in my mind, that is assuming that there is no risk in certain actions and or in the status quo. So, you know, for me, I started this firm, which seemed like a big risk at the time. And I started in 2018. But at the, you know, because I was coming from a firm, a well established firm that, you know, paid me and I was, you know, never worried about the paycheck and it just came, and I knew there was business there and as business was going to keep coming in, and so it seemed like a big risk for me to, to go out on my own. Now. Now I look back at it and I think I was at a much bigger risk staying at that firm than I am now. And it kind of goes back to my roots of graduating law school in 2009. And seeing that the the people who had got terminated the attorneys that got let go or laid off. Were not the attorneys with big books of business. Those attorneys always have a place. And so if you have clients, if you have relationships you have, you know, people who know like and trust you and come to you do work for them, you always have a place to anywhere you want. Or you could write your own ticket by starting your own firm. And, you know, the firm I was at was a great firm, great attorneys loved it there. The problem was that I was the corporate guy doing all the corporate work for other people’s clients. And so at the end of the day, you know, my risk was, as I look back at it now, it was more of a risk for me to be there than it is now because now I have my own clients. I have those relationships, direct relationships, and when they have issues that come to me, and and so I can write my own ticket a lot more than I could At the prior firm, and so I think, you know, often people think that certain, whatever society says, or whatever seems normal and safe might not always be normal and safe because, you know, big, big fortune 500 companies will lay you off. And, and that happens all the time. And so just having that job doesn’t necessarily mean you’re safe. And so, you know, I think bottom line is sometimes take what seems like a risk might actually be safer in the long run.
J Darrin Gross 38:31
No, well said I think there’s a lot of people out there that believe if you have, are there security with a job, you know, I think it’s kind of a lot of the way we’ve been. Our society is kind of reflected you know, you go back a couple generations and, and you know, you look for the union label or whatever you want to was and just kind of the, the, you know, the comfort I think is probably to a part of that is a lot of times of jobs, they give you just enough to to satisfy you, but keep you hungry, you know, not so much you’re not hungry kind of thing. And you don’t realize that what’s what’s on the other side of the fence and then then the flip side of that is a lot of times the the opportunity always looks, or the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence, but it’s just as tough to mow kind of thing. You know, there’s so but that’s, that’s, that’s great. I mean, again, I commend you on on jumping out on your own and congrats on your success. So
Trevor Crow 39:26
Thank you. Appreciate it.
J Darrin Gross 39:28
Hey, Trevor, before we wrap up, where can listeners go if they would like to learn more connect with you?
Trevor Crow 39:35
So my website is www.crow.legal and so it’s not a.com it’s dot legal and so crow.legal and so all my information is on there. But you know, you can feel free to email me at Trevor@crow.legal, happy to talk to anybody who’s who’s looking to do a deal or whatever, even if you just want to want to chat about it and bounce ideas. Happy to do that. You No, we don’t charge for anything like that or initial consultations, you know, we want to make sure we’re the best fit before you ever receive a bill for us from us. And, you know, my direct line is 720-230-7123. You could call me there as well. And yeah, so feel free to reach out anytime.
J Darrin Gross 40:18
All right. Well, Trevor, can’t say thanks enough for taking the time. I’ve enjoyed our talk, learned a lot and hope we can do it again soon.
Trevor Crow 40:27
Sounds good. Darrin, thank you.
J Darrin Gross 40:29
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