Viktor Jiracek  0:00  

What’s really cool about flipping is like you’re in, you’re out, you get a big check and then you can move on. So typically, on average, my flips about 30k net profit, give or take some deals are better. Some deals are worse. But that’s typically the average. And what’s really cool about is like you now get this big check to walk away with, with the rental side of things like I would have this big check. With the rentals like I would be on the hook for ongoing maintenance tenants, like I still have to like the property was in the back of my mind forever to take care of with the flipping like you’re in and out, and you don’t have to worry about anymore.

Announcer  0:34  

Welcome to CRE PN Radio for influential commercial real estate professionals who work with investors, buyers and sellers of commercial real estate coast to coast whether you’re an investor, broker, lender, property manager, attorney or accountant We are here to learn from the experts.

J Darrin Gross  0:53  

Welcome to Commercial Real Estate Pro Networks, CRE PN Radio. Thanks for joining us. My name is J. Darrin Gross. This is the podcast focused on commercial real estate investment and risk management strategies. Weekly we have conversations with commercial real estate investors and professionals who provide their experience and insight to help you grow your real estate portfolio. 

Today my guest is Viktor Jiracek.  is a real estate fix and flipper based in Gainesville, Florida. He completed 40 excuse me 20 flips last year and is on pace to do an additional 30 flips for this year 2021. Ironically, his best flip was a $64,000 net profit deal that almost that he almost backed out up. And in just a minute, we’re going to speak with  about what makes a successful flip, and how to get started to do your own flips. 

To learn more about insurance for flipping properties, go to: 

https://www.buildinginsurancerisk.com/insurance-for-flipping-properties.html

But first, a quick reminder, if you like our show, CRE PN Radio, there are a couple things you can do to help us out. You can like share and subscribe. And as always, we encourage you to leave a comment we’d love to hear from our listeners. Also, if you’d like to see how handsome our guests are, be sure to check out our YouTube channel channel. You can find us on youtube at commercial real estate pro network. And while you’re there, please subscribe. With that I want to welcome my guest, Viktor. Welcome to CRE PN Radio. 

Viktor Jiracek  2:24  

Thanks for having me. I’m excited. 

J Darrin Gross  2:26  

Well, I’m looking forward to our talk today. Before we get started, if you could take just a minute and share with the listeners a little bit about your background.

Viktor Jiracek  2:35  

Yeah, for sure. So I’m a fixin flipper. So just to give a clear definition I buy property fix it up sell it so I should take ownership of it. Primarily fix and flip I live in Gainesville do most of my deals locally for Alachua County went full time about two and a half years ago I used to work kind of corporate as healthcare full time realize it wasn’t for me for a number of reasons that went into flipping real estate really enjoyed it as to where I plan to stay forever. So that’s a quick introduction on me, but I really fell in love with the flipping process. That’s why I’ve really been focusing on recently.

J Darrin Gross  3:09  

Awesome. So you’re down there in Gator Ville or Gator land. Is that right? Go Gators? Yeah, University of Florida. Yeah, exactly. So well let’s talk a little bit about that. So you You said you you were in medical industry and decided that wasn’t for you? How did how did you decide the real estate was more attractive vehicle for you?

Viktor Jiracek  3:33  

Yeah, so I don’t know if you can relate to this but I always had like in the back of my mind like a real estate real estate real estate. So it’s almost always like hey, I want to do this thing and then the next thing is once I get some money that I can go into real estate so it’s always like this thing that followed me around for years and years and just you know finally decided to take a leap I it didn’t make sense to me to like okay, let me do this thing so I can do this other thing I figured out like what if I just do a straight shot to what I actually want to do and the rest is history

J Darrin Gross  4:03  

So flipping houses, I mean there’s there’s multiple opportunities in real estate, different asset classes and different ways to make money what is it that appealed to you about flipping houses?

Viktor Jiracek  4:18  

I really liked so there’s a couple things so the first thing I really like about flipping houses is like you get to see the transformation so you’d buy a house and it’s kind of crummy beat up outdated you paint a you fix it up you make it all nice then suddenly it’s it’s nice modern cool thing everyone wants to live there. Before people saw it before pictures they run away like I don’t even want to be near this place. And then suddenly afterwards like everyone’s running towards like I man I want to buy it. So it’s really cool to see that transformation just to see like it really improve as a property improve the neighborhood to a lot of times we do a flip and then we’re suddenly the house nicest house in the neighborhood from worst to best. So it’s cool to see that. That’s the first thing I really enjoy about the second thing I’d say what’s really cool about flipping a Like you’re in, you’re out, you get a big check, and then you can move on. So typically, on average, my flips about 30k. net profit, give or take some deals are better, some deals are worse. But that’s typically the average. And what’s really cool about is like you now get this big check to walk away with, with the rental side of things like I would have this big check. With the rentals, like I would be on the hook for ongoing maintenance tenants, like I still have to like the property was in the back of my mind forever, to take care of with the flipping like you’re in and out, and you don’t have to worry about anymore. So I really liked that that quick nature of it, where you can move on to the big paydays is really exciting to that, I’ve seen that, especially with a lot of beginners, you know, getting a plus 300 bucks a month from you know, good rental, that’s exciting. But what’s really life changing, as you know, plus $30,000 in your bank account, you start to think differently, start to act differently in a good way, you start to have more options open if there’s a sort of emergency like you can handle it. So that’s what I’ve seen. That’s what I really enjoyed about the flipping.

J Darrin Gross  6:01  

Gotcha. And it as far as the the, the actual the the work, the the changes the property from the the worst to the best on the block there. Do you do the work yourself? Do you have subcontractors? How do you go about doing that.

Viktor Jiracek  6:18  

So when when I started, I actually did the work myself, like the painting and the flooring, there was a couple things wrong with that. The first was like I didn’t have that much time. So once you start to do more and more volume, like your time becomes an issue. Second thing I’m not very good at those things is when I found out, it’s much better to get professionals in there. So where I’m at now have a project manager and then she hires the people like hires the painter pays the painter hires the flooring person, you know, pays the flooring person. So it makes a lot easier that way. We don’t have to worry about that sort of thing. So especially as you do more and more like if I wanted to do 30 this year, I’d be killing myself working 24 seven trying to fix all these places up. So that’s why I recommend, there’s a lot of different ways to do the renovations. There’s like the Do It Yourself model. There’s the GC model. And it really just depends on the person and their their preference. But it was realized that there was going to be a trade off like time and money. So if you do it yourself, it’s going to cost you time save you money. If you hire it out fully from GC, it’s going to save you time costing money. So it was always that balance to play with as you’re getting into the renovations.

J Darrin Gross  7:21  

And speaking of the time aspect, what do you What’s an average time for you from acquire to sale?

Viktor Jiracek  7:32  

Yeah, so from closing table, the closing table, I think we’re on average about four months, one month to 45 days is like the actual renovation. Then we spend your we listed it’s a luckily a hot market now. So typically within a week, it’s under contract. And there’s the inspection and appraisal, you know, all that stuff to work through in the closing that typically takes 30 days, 45 days, so typically a four months on average. And then some of them take less someone take more, but that’s what we’ve been seeing recently,

J Darrin Gross  8:01  

Got it.  And, are most of yours more of a cosmetic flip, or are you getting into roof lines and bumping out walls and changing the floor plan or doing anything behind the wall kind of stuff.

Viktor Jiracek  8:17  

I try to keep them as simple as possible. Like we’ve done the full gut jobs. And then we’ve done the cosmetic lipstick on a pig. Sometimes people call it. So we’ve done both. we’ve really done both there. I really liked the quick simple ones were like you’re and you’re out, you can move on. Just because like once you start opening up walls, changing the layout, you know, doing all that stuff, you start to open a can of worms where you open a wall, it’s like, oh, we didn’t realize we have to do this. And now to fix this. And now like you keep adding to your budget for the renovation. So I just really liked the quick in and out paint flooring as much as possible. But you know, I’ll do anything where the numbers make sense.

J Darrin Gross  8:55  

So how do you find your deals? What’s the, the source or how do you source your deals?

Viktor Jiracek  9:02  

Yeah, I know for sure. So about half my deals I source on my own through like cold calling through, just like Facebook groups, a lot of referrals. And about about half are wholesalers and for your audience. Maybe they know what a wholesaler is. But just to give a good definition. So wholesalers, basically someone who goes out and finds deals, they put it under contract and they can sell you that contract. So I’ve had a lot of luck with them trying to build relationships with them and they send you on they send deals and there’s a whole wholesaler movement taking place where it used to be that here in Gainesville when I started there’s like maybe one, maybe two wholesalers and now I have like 1520 wholesalers on my list. So suddenly it’s like a brand new movement. And that’s great for me. For the most part where they bring me deals I don’t have to do anything. It’s like oh, here’s a deal on a silver platter and it makes my life a lot easier.

J Darrin Gross  9:55  

No and that that makes a lot of sense. The you know more bird dogs out there. Finding the opportunities. That’s great. So, funding you mentioned in the beginning, or when we were first talking about, you know that that hurdle of, you know, the way to get a big pile of money together, how do you? How do you do that first one kind of kind of thing? Can you? Can you share a little bit about how you go about funding? Your flips?

Viktor Jiracek  10:26  

Yeah, no, for sure. So there’s a couple ways to do it. I’ll talk about the one my first flip where that was, like I was, I had a low 500 credit score. And then I had maybe a couple 1000 in the bank, and I was still able to get the flip down. So basically, what happened. So I found this great deal was a lady as a nurse who was living at a state, and she was tired of the property and got hit by Hurricane Irma. And she was just tired of dealing with it. And her, her mom passed away. So is inherited properties, there’s a couple layers of motivation there, and she just choose one to be done with it. She’s like, Hey, I’m out, I don’t want to, you know, I just want to sell it. So I got the property under contract. What I did Max, it was a great deal. So we’re gonna buy it at 105, we’re going to put in about 25 ish, and then sell for 170 to 200. So that was a plan. So there was there’s room there, there’s a good potential profit there. So it was a it was a good deal. So we got a good deal got under contract, what I did next I reached out to my network, I found what’s called what I call like a money partner. So I found the deal, I would help with the renovations, I would help sell the property, I’d be like the boots on the ground sweat equity, like I would be the one who putting it all together. And they would be more like a money partner. So they would put in all the funds to buy it to fix it up to sell it. And then we would split the profit after that. That’s how I got my first one done. And you’d be surprised like how many people in your network have the funds for these types of deals. It was like plenty of different ways to structure but it gets you started got me started. So I was able to turn that deal into into multiple deals, start doing deals on my own, which is what I’m doing now. So makes it really exciting. But that’s how I got my first deal just using that money partner model and we split the profits. And it just it’s a hell of a start. It’s a great start. Because my first year I did like two then I did eight the last year 20 then this year 30. So like it just gets you going. And that’s exponential from there, which is really exciting.

J Darrin Gross  12:18  

Yeah, and that money partner, do you find? The first one is pretty challenging together? How did you go about conveying to your your money partner that you were, you know, able to pull this off.

Viktor Jiracek  12:37  

So how I did that, I just basically share the numbers like, Hey, this is what we’re buying. And out, here are some pictures of what it looks like, how much work it needs, and this how much we can sell it for. And then once you share that number, like hey, we can make on that one we made. I think 28k. net, we wanted more. But we always want more, but 28 is what we ended up with. So we split that. So just sharing that like, hey, if you put money into this deal, we can potentially share this, this profit, so you kind of sharing the benefit with them. And then also at the same time, it’s you can mention, a lot of people especially have money just sitting in the bank, and it’s earning, you know, point a 1% interest. So might as well put it to work. There’s a lot of people who want to get started real estate, and they just don’t know how to get started. And when you give them a sort of opportunity, you know, they’ve been sitting on their money for a while, hey, I’ve been watching HGTV I want to get into real estate. So we’re just lines up. And it makes a lot of sense. Not to say typically, your first deal is going to be the hardest, it does get easier over time. So just just to answer your point. So yes, it is going to be a little bit harder the first time but it does get easier once you build a track record and know what you’re doing and all that good stuff.

J Darrin Gross  13:47  

And as far as the cost of money for something like that. I know, as an insurance agent, I’ve worked with a lot of flippers over the years and and I think there’s definitely the difference between the person that’s got some sort of a clock in their head that understands they need to get this project done. Versus the person that doesn’t have that clock and it lingers and lingers and lingers. kind of thing. You mentioned your your average time is about four months. Your first one can you tell how long that one took?

Viktor Jiracek  14:22  

Yeah, so the renovation took about eight weeks. So about two months. It was listed for about two weeks, then got then got under contract. And then I think to close that one was about 30 days. So that was two plus half. So like in that same timeframe, roughly so three to five months, roughly.

J Darrin Gross  14:39  

That’s great. So you were able to keep that that kind of timeline gone. That’s great. And luckily Yes, in when you when you’ve run your budget, you know you’ve got your acquisition costs and your renovation cost. In view, you’ve got your four months Thailand, is there a I mean a carrying cost kind of market rate. What kind of range? Are you seeing for that kind of stuff? You mentioned? Like, you know, if you leave your money in the bank and get around 1%, what what kind of range? Are our money partners? What, what kind of rate? Do they charge for that?

Viktor Jiracek  15:13  

It’s going to depend on the money partner. So for some people,

J Darrin Gross  15:17  

I guess if you’re splitting the deal to that,

Viktor Jiracek  15:19  

yeah, that’s, that’s where they get their benefit. So it’s one of those things, it just depends. For that first money partner, it was, I think it was 70 3070 them 30. me. And again, I was just happy to get that first deal done, which is awesome. So that was the first one. Other ones I’ve done 5050 some of them, it’s been like 5050. And they want like a 6%, like, payment and kind type of thing. where like, they charge 6%. But you don’t necessarily get a bill for 6%. You just at the end, they will get that. So I’ve seen all different ways. It just it’s really person to person. So there’s no correct answer, like whatever both parties are, are open to, again, I’d highly recommend like, hey, just get your first deal done, you’re going to build so much momentum out of that. And you just you’ll be surprised where you’re at. And, you know, a year, three years, five years,

J Darrin Gross  16:12  

right? No, I and I totally agree. I mean that the experiences kind of like your down payment, to really kind of, you know, start your business and get really going. So that’s, that’s great. So I think before we started recording, you and I talked a little bit and you’d mentioned kind of a philosophy of do a flip, buy a rental, do a flip, buy a rental kind of thing. Can you talk a little bit about how you see that? And how you encourage people or what what’s your philosophy on on, you know, flip rental flip rental kind of thing?

Viktor Jiracek  16:48  

Yeah, no, for sure. So it’s one of those things, I see a lot of beginners make the mistake, like, okay, want to get into real estate. So the first deal is a rental. And the problem with that, at least as how I see it is like you’ll put some money aside, you’ll put that as a downpayment into rental, and they’ll start cash flowing, that’s awesome. Nothing wrong with that. But it’ll take you for you to do your next deal, it’s gonna take quite a long time, you have to save for years and years, save the cash flow, save your income, until you can finally do another nother deal. And that’s gonna be the same story like it’s going to take a couple years to do that next deal. So that’s why I recommend flip rental flip rental, because then like you do a flip, let’s say you’ll make 2030 40,000 awesome. Put that as a downpayment into a rental, and then do another flip. You know, put that as a down payment into another rental. But that way that speeds up that process like now you’re acquiring or like generating capital that you can then put into rentals. So it’s just really exciting that way, where you just basically buy as fast as you can flip houses, you can buy rentals. So then it becomes like, how many properties Do you want to buy? How many flips Do you want to do, then you’re not stuck waiting for long periods of time. So that’s the philosophy behind that. And it doesn’t have to be that specific ratio, it can be like two flips one rental or, you know, three flips, one rental, and I’ve seen people make permutations of that to where it’s like a flip a number or like a flip in a multifamily. But they kind of play around with that formula, but then you can accelerate your real estate, you know, so I’ve taken 10 years to build a decent portfolio. I’ll take you, you know, three.

J Darrin Gross  18:21  

What’s an ideal opportunity look like for you?

Viktor Jiracek  18:26  

Yeah, so we typically buy so we buy houses, condos, townhomes, mobile homes, so we’re pretty open. If someone’s living in there, well, you know, someone can live in there, we’ll flip it up. And luckily flipping is as simple as buy low, sell high. So even like a mobile home, sometimes you buy it in the like for 50 and put in 10 and sell for 100. And that’s still a deal. We’re just buying low and selling high. Typically how we look at deals is like what’s called 70% rule. So for your listeners here 70% rule 70% ARV minus repairs is your max offer. And your RV being after repaired value is like when you listed retail. Once it’s all fixed up, what can sell for is what the ARV means. So 70%. So just a quick example. Let’s say you can sell a place for 100,000 you to put in about 10,000 into it in terms of repairs. So that means your max offer is 60,000. So that’s the max you can play for pay for a place. So if someone says, Hey, I want to sell you this property for 50,000 Yes, that’s a deal I’m in. If they say hey, I want to sell you this place for 80,000 as an example, it’s like oh, I don’t know those numbers are too tight. That’s not a deal. So it makes it really, really clear. Like what’s the deal? What’s not a deal? Because there’s a million other factors that can go into you know, what’s the deal and what’s not versus just the numbers. So like, what about the neighborhood? What about the school? This is a two bedroom, one bath on a three bedroom two bath, which is what everyone wants? Or, oh, the square footage is a little bit smaller. Oh, you know, like anything Kadima. There’s million variables, but I like just this still up to the numbers, that it becomes super clear like okay, this is a deal. This isn’t a deal. That just makes it much easier to analyze these properties. JOHN.

J Darrin Gross  20:05  

So based on the number of properties you’ve done, we’ve talked about some of your your home rounds or your better one. So there was one Nagesh made 64,000. Can you talk about one that didn’t go? Well? Is there any, any that you were happy to get out of? Or have you made money on all of them.

Viktor Jiracek  20:25  

So luckily, we’ve made money on all of them, sometimes not as much as we want were set out to make 30,000, we made 10,000 In the end, so that that happens, too. It’s tough to bat 1000 at you know, 30 cage. So one of the less less fortunate deals. And again, I see all these as like a learning experience. So it’s like, okay, cool, I made a mistake, I won’t make that mistake again, after going through that painful process, and then you just grow and improve. So your highs get higher, and the lows get less, less low. So you kind of spiral upwards positively. So there’s a deal we bought here in Gainesville, I was just a normal concrete block house. Standard. The guy was initially what we thought is he said he had some tenants and they were bad tenants. So I need to get them out. So like, okay, ended up he was late on his taxes. And if we didn’t pay his tax bill, like, while in the negotiation process, then he was he was out, like, I mean, he, they were gonna auction it off and, and sell it. So we would pay the tax bill. Great, went through all the closing, he’s kind of a hassle to deal with, to say the least, but eventually closed. And then this is the mistake we made, we didn’t give what’s typically called like a post closing occupancy agreement. He said, like, Oh, I have some stuff in that place. Some tools, give me 30 days, and I’ll get them out. So typically, what we’ve done in that case, like there’s a post coast closing occupancy agreement, like if you’re not out, within this timeframe, there’s some sort of penalty, when you close, there’s like a hold back, you don’t give them all the money, because you want there to be some sort of penalty if they don’t, they don’t comply. For that’s the only property we’ve never done an on. And that’s the one we needed, unfortunately, so he didn’t move out in 30 days, it took us I think, like two or three months to finally get him out. He was on some sort of drugs or something. And then he was even resentful and bitter, like, Hey, I know you guys are gonna make a ton of money on this property I should have, I could have been able to fix it myself and could have made the money myself. And I mean, we saved him from losing the house. So not to say he had to be grateful, but to be negative towards us, was a slap in the face. So eventually got him out, got his stuff out and to keep following up. At one point, he went to jail for about a month and has a lot of stuff there. So we’re kind of waiting for that. And that entire process of venture went through. So we ended up renovating it, fixing up selling that one pretty smoothly. And then we you know, we were done with the deal. I think on that one, we made maybe 12,000 net profit. So not a homerun but still made money. And just a good learning lesson post closing occupancy agreement. If they stay in the property, if they’re moving out, you’re not a big deal, but they’re gonna stick around.

J Darrin Gross  23:06  

Yeah, know that, especially with all the landlord tenant laws. I don’t know how they’re in Florida. But I know out here that’s that’s definitely a touchy situation. So , let me ask you. So I know that you’ve been doing this now on your own for a couple years. Yeah. And now you’re also working with new investors that are looking to get into flips? Can you talk a little bit about how you work with your students? Or how you mentor? People?

Viktor Jiracek  23:37  

Yeah, no, for sure. So how I do it. So I flipped myself full time. But I also mentor people nationwide on how to flip. So students all over like Michigan and Texas, New York, like any state, I have students there. It’s a pretty, like, pretty involved process. Like they get direct access to me anytime you have a question they ever want to send me a deal to analyze, we can, you know, review the deal together? You know, so it’s pretty involved. It’s not necessarily just like a course, you know, here, good luck. It’s pretty involved with the entire process and trying to help them out throughout that entire thing. Yeah, so it’s exciting stuff. And I just help people. I’ve helped a lot of people get deals, one of my students actually beat my record. So on one flip, I made about 64k. I thought that was really good. And then on her first one, I think she made like 85,000 plus. And it’s, it’s exciting. It’s also humbling, where it’s like, well, wait a second, maybe I’m not as good at this is I thought, but she’s gone on to do other deals. And that’s, that’s great. But that’s pretty much it. I just mentor people throughout the entire flipping process, like how do you get the money? How do you get the deals? How do you run your numbers? How do you hire contractors, like any good thing you could think of a to z. So when I help folks Out With Dad,

J Darrin Gross  24:49  

Hey, , if we could like to shift gears here for a second, yep. By day, I’m an insurance broker. And I work with my clients to assess risk and determine what to do with the risk. There’s there’s three strategies we typically turn to, we look to see if first we can avoid the risk. If that’s not an option, then we look to see if we can minimize the risk. And when we can no on cannot avoid or minimize the risk. And we look to see if we can transfer the risk. And that’s what an insurance policy is. I like to ask my guests, if they can look at their own situation, could be their clients, investors, tenants, the market, you know, however they want to identify, risk, but take a look at their own situation and identify what they consider to be the biggest risk. And for clarity, I’m not looking for an insurance related answer per se. But if you’re willing, I’d like to ask you,  Jiracek, what is the BIGGEST RISK?

Viktor Jiracek  25:54  

Yeah, no, I think that’s that’s great question, happy to answer it. I’d say it’s all about the numbers. So I always teach and preach. It’s like profit margin, like margin of error, like how much you know, profit, do you have potential in the deal, because if anything goes wrong, like a takes longer than you want, or doesn’t sell for as much as you want, you have to go over repairs, like that’s all going to eat into your profit margin. So the more profit buffer or profit margin you have, the better. So again, it’s all about the numbers. And there’s been a lot of deals where like we set out to make 30 40,000. That’s, that’s great. And then one issue came up, and then another issue came up and another issue came up. And then we walked away with 10,000. But luckily, we had that initial, you know, profit buffer to work with, or else we would have been in the red. So with that same example, like if we initially wanted to make, we said, like, Hey, I just want to make 15,000. Like, if I can make 15,000 on this, I’d be happy. And then the issue comes up in that issue, another issue another issue, and then suddenly, you’re in the red. So that happens a ton. So that’s why I recommend in terms of risk, like just protect yourself, like if you buy any, any property for the right price, like every single thing can go wrong, and you can still be profitable. But again, it’s you make money when you buy is, is the segue from that. But it’s really like profit margin buffer, just in case anything goes wrong, and it will go wrong. That’s the other thing. It always takes longer than you want. And it always costs more than you want. So

J Darrin Gross  27:22  

The truth! Yeah, now I’ve had many projects where the budget was x and, or where we built a place. And on day one, the builder was calling me telling me like, I didn’t know there’s so much dirt on this, you know, he’s gonna burn through my whole contingency on day one. Like so. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. So that’s great. So , where can listeners go if they’d like to learn more or connect with you?

Viktor Jiracek  27:52  

Yeah, so for sure. I’m very active on Facebook. And I have a free Facebook group called six figure house flippers. So folks want to get you know, get hold of me there. join the group again, it’s free. I go live on there and do deal breakdowns that I’m working on. Like give free tips you know, there’s there’s a ton of great stuff and it’s all free in there. So if you look me up on Facebook , your check, I’m a unique name Luckily, so you’ll he’ll find me pretty quick. And then I also have that free Facebook group. And yeah, this community if you want help on mentorship, great, you know, I’m happy to help we can have that discussion. If you just want the free work resources. There’s nothing wrong with that. But that’s that’s accessible to everyone. https://www.sellyourgainesvillehometoday.com/

J Darrin Gross  28:28  

Awesome. , I can’t say thanks enough for taking the time to talk today. I’ve enjoyed our talk, learned a lot, and I look forward to doing it again soon.

Viktor Jiracek  28:39  

Awesome. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

J Darrin Gross  28:41  

All right. For our listeners. If you liked this episode, don’t forget to like, share and subscribe. Remember, the more you know, the more you grow. That’s all we’ve got this week. Until next time, thanks for listening to Commercial Real Estate Pro Networks. CRE PN Radio.

Announcer  28:59  

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